high speed catr ram

[fluidin]

Note that I said CT-ing high vit enemies is NOT encouraged...please lrn2read. I really do not recommend CT-ing unless the player is noob, low vit, or has meagre resources to spam. My 61 DEF Gypsy can outpot 186 ASPD CT with a +7 HA from a buffed WS. And I only have the normal eqs; FB, Thara, Raydric, etc.

On my server, Mastersmiths are buffers (linked skill included), and pure tanker killers; with their max aspd Guillotine. Because you do not expect to kill pure devotion Paladins and full VIT profs easily.

And I'm sorry about the weapon recommendation. My server's players have an average def of 60, thus... My bad. CK is better for low defs, of course. Also, yes, the Quad Diligent Orcish Axe is good, so is a Windhawk, which actually bypasses the elemental reductions from a Valkyrie Shield.

Anyway, the strategies involved should differ server to server, no? On a typical server, some people's suggestions are much more viable and practical, some are not.

Also, you sure think you're skillful, don't you? Do not presume to lecture me.

[Koldar]

Note that I said CT-ing high vit enemies is NOT encouraged...please lrn2read. I really do not recommend CT-ing unless the player is noob, low vit, or has meagre resources to spam. My 61 DEF Gypsy can outpot 186 ASPD CT with a +7 HA from a buffed WS. And I only have the normal eqs; FB, Thara, Raydric, etc.

On my server, Mastersmiths are buffers (linked skill included), and pure tanker killers; with their max aspd Guillotine. Because you do not expect to kill pure devotion Paladins and full VIT profs easily.

And I'm sorry about the weapon recommendation. My server's players have an average def of 60, thus... My bad. CK is better for low defs, of course. Also, yes, the Quad Diligent Orcish Axe is good, so is a Windhawk, which actually bypasses the elemental reductions from a Valkyrie Shield.

Anyway, the strategies involved should differ server to server, no? On a typical server, some people's suggestions are much more viable and practical, some are not.

Also, you sure think you're skillful, don't you? Do not presume to lecture me.

Uh, any two-handed weapons unless doing very quick swaps is absolutly not recommended in WoE. For the most times you might end up getting fairly injured. And, I fail to understand, how is CK better for low def characters..? The point of the CK is the "ignore demi-human's defense" part. For the elemental part that seems to worry you so much, use converters, that's all. With the weight limit you have you can easily carry 50-100 Wind and Earth Converters, especially if you use the optimized cart weight trick. Mastersmith are in fact buffers, but I'm a little skeptical about using the Guillotine. I mean it's nice if you have nothing better to do, combined with Meltdown, I suppose... But there is so much to do in WoE. And yes, I'm a skillful Mastersmith, not the best around, but I've been around long enough to know the do's or don't, and must get's. I'm just trying to point accross that a CK is the weapon every MS wants and needs to have whatever happens, and that by all means you plan to never get one, you shouldn't be making a Mastersmith.

[bleu]

wat is the optimise cart weight trick?

Isnt it max at 8000 weight.

[fluidin]

Uh, any two-handed weapons unless doing very quick swaps is absolutly not recommended in WoE. For the most times you might end up getting fairly injured. And, I fail to understand, how is CK better for low def characters..? The point of the CK is the "ignore demi-human's defense" part. For the elemental part that seems to worry you so much, use converters, that's all. With the weight limit you have you can easily carry 50-100 Wind and Earth Converters, especially if you use the optimized cart weight trick. Mastersmith are in fact buffers, but I'm a little skeptical about using the Guillotine. I mean it's nice if you have nothing better to do, combined with Meltdown, I suppose... But there is so much to do in WoE. And yes, I'm a skillful Mastersmith, not the best around, but I've been around long enough to know the do's or don't, and must get's. I'm just trying to point accross that a CK is the weapon every MS wants and needs to have whatever happens, and that by all means you plan to never get one, you shouldn't be making a Mastersmith.

CK is better for lower def charecters because HA is better for higher def ones. It's as simple as that. Note: Lower def, NOT low def) I find the best factor of CK the 10% reduction, not the piercing of def, hahas. Err, I didn't stress so much about the elemental part, did I? It was just a passing mention... converters are not easily obtainable in every server, btw.

No, really. A WS' two main roles should be just to buff and Guillotine smack people. This is if you are in a server where the only 4 skills that can kill are AD, SB, Grim and Asura. (I swear, in my server people only die to these four skills, apart from Coma inducing stuff; and a really high MATK Hwiz's MS stacking.)

Nvm, I find it really difficult to explain when it really differs ALOT from server to server. I'll show you just what I mean.

http://vimeo.com/1242942

Now tell me whether whatever WS' role you had in mind works better than my interpretation of a WS' playstyle here. There are no low vits aside from OH users, btw. This is because ONE Gypsy's average Scream spammage rate is actually 3 times per second Those stun rings you see isn't due to low vit, just 60-80 vit. My point is, yes, CT is really, really obsolete; unless you have Turtle General slotted HAs or such.

Therefore yes, playstyles do differ a lot from server to server, and at least I can see the merit in having so many different suggestions here. If it isn't viable in your server, that does not mean it is not viable in his. This is in response to "Nobody in this topic knows what they're talking about, at all."

BTW: No, my server is not a noob MVP card infested server. Cards like GR, MP, OH, the norm of the 'gay' cards, are available for rent with limited stock. The rest of the MVP cards actually drop at official server x1 rates. And yes, people actually manage to get GTB/Incantation Samurai/TGK off those rates.

[Khalin-]

Also, yes, the Quad Diligent Orcish Axe is good, so is a Windhawk, which actually bypasses the elemental reductions from a Valkyrie Shield.

First off, I want to say that this is an extremely poor choice of weaponry. Don't embarrass yourself by using this weapon in open combat.

CK is better for lower def charecters because HA is better for higher def ones.

Have you tested the margin for higher damage with Ice pick over a Combat Knife? The multiplier [Def + Vit Def] must be 124 or higher, in order for Ice pick to be more effective. Another drawback to using Ice pick is that its damage is highly inconsistent and unreliable, so I actually don't end up using this very often. In this case, Combat Knife is suitable for 90% of your targets because its damage is both high and consistent, regardless of its low atk. In PvP, you're dealing 3542 damage per hit on a target using Cranial and Beret [with my build, results may vary for players with minor atk differences]. I don't factor Immune in, because you should never be stupid enough to attack without an element on your weapon. Elemental Converters are your friend.

converters are not easily obtainable in every server, btw.

All you need to do is make an Endow Slave, and purchase Blank Scrolls, and hunt Horns and Rainbow Shells. How is that not easy?

No, really. A WS' two main roles should be just to buff and Guillotine smack people. This is if you are in a server where the only 4 skills that can kill are AD, SB, Grim and Asura. (I swear, in my server people only die to these four skills, apart from Coma inducing stuff; and a really high MATK Hwiz's MS stacking.)

Support DPS in most situations in addition to support hit-lock. Never ever use a Guillotine, as this ridiculous two-handed weapon leaves you extremely vulnerable to unnecessary damage. Edge is a much preferred Coma weapon in this case. And if you die to EDP Grimtooth, then you need to pay more attention to your HP bar and your surroundings.

http://vimeo.com/1242942 Now tell me whether whatever WS' role you had in mind works better than my interpretation of a WS' playstyle here.

I think if you're going to try and flaunt classic blockade-style confrontations, then for one you need to care more about your guild's organization. I have a lot of issues with the organization of both guilds, but one of the things that really seem to bother me here, is that I'm having trouble understanding why your Wizards aren't using Ganbantein on the enemy's Magnetic Earth. There are also numerous situations where a Scholar could've walked over to cancel their Magnetic Earth, not even referring to the fact that in all cases, the opposing guild was next to a wall [excellent usage for Frilldora]. This is beside the point, however.

Cards like GR, MP, OH, the norm of the 'gay' cards, are available for rent with limited stock.

No comment.

[fluidin]

1) Windhawk is not THAT bad. Take note I was of the opinion that he was in a server with low drop rates and low population (so no decent MVP parties), where HA and CK are darn near impossible to get.

2) Like I said, for higher def chars. So, yes. Most people in my server actually have 124 DEF+VITDEF or higher.

3) Some people on lowrates are lazy enough not to make a slave just for converter-making purposes.

4) Tell me how to kill a TGK, GTB Paladin with normal means, w/o using Coma effects. Take note people actually spam Yggs and Korean Rice Cakes (ID# 663). Edge does not let you make use of some WS buffs. Do you know how much their EDP Grimtooths damage people for? 3-4k per hit. SinXs have 600+ base ATK, and use overupgraded Bloody Roars. They also tend to stick inside their own pack, where you can't sight them out, and where they recieve AoS and Poem songs' buffs.

5) Just walk over? Did you not see the damage inflicted everywhere? You want a Scholar to survive that, under focused fire? By the way, LPs do get casted whenever possible. In fact, they get spammed. Frilldora? You want to get inside that pack and die in one second? Yes, one second. You won't even get a chance to spam your recovery items. It seems like you cannot comprehend how much damage is being dealt. This with most characters using 2x Alligators, Raydric, FB, Cranial VS, CK, and an average DEF (excluding VITDEF) of 60.

P/S: Some of the points I made in earlier posts are targeted at people in Lowrates, who have no wish to achieve equipments higher than the average standard in their server. And sigh. Just to give you an idea of how deadly AD is, since the video apparently failed to make an impact on you; AD is probably being spammed at almost the same rate of DS. YES, DOUBLE STRAFING.


EDIT: I would like to hear your opinions on what's wrong with the guilds' organizations.

[Khalin-]

1) Windhawk is not THAT bad. Take note I was of the opinion that he was in a server with low drop rates and low population (so no decent MVP parties)

Trust me, having low drop rates and low population is no excuse to not get a decent MVP'ing party together. Even the most inexperienced and lazy guilds can at least put together a half-decent party to kill a Bio3 MVP using the ledge tactic, if nothing else. Combat Knife and Ice pick are not difficult items to acquire by any means. In fact, it's usually much easier to form these parties on lower population servers [it generally means lighter competition].

2) Like I said, for higher def chars. So, yes. Most people in my server actually have 124 DEF+VITDEF or higher.

Another thing you should consider is whether or not it's a wise decision to lose your extra 10% Demi-Human reduction from the Combat Knife, just so you can deal 100~400 more damage per hit with an Ice pick. Is a potential extra 100~400 damage really worth it? Of course, sometimes the answer is yes, but there are definitely times where I disagree with this notion. Damage is not everything.

3) Some people on lowrates are lazy enough not to make a slave just for converter-making purposes.

This makes no sense at all. If you are so lazy that you're unwilling to spend 2 hours to make an Endow slave for converter making purposes, then you're definitely not qualified to succeed on a low rate and should consider a server with higher rates. Never embarrass yourself by committing to a low rate when you know you don't have what it takes to execute some degree of resourcefulness and self-reliability. Efficiency is one element of success.

4) Tell me how to kill a TGK, GTB Paladin with normal means, w/o using Coma effects.

There are definitely more targets in WoE other than Tao Gunka, GTB Paladins that you should be attentive of. If anything, just keep them frozen if they're stupid enough to keep Tao Gunka on. WoE is a guild effort, not a solo effort.

Edge does not let you make use of some WS buffs.

By "some", you're referring to Adrenaline Rush, which is only one of them. There's always the option of Advanced Adrenaline Rush, and your guild should have active Soul Linkers. If you're getting Dispelled, then you need to reposition [and at that point, it wouldn't matter if you were using a Guillotine or an Edge, because your aspd buff will wear off along with your Berserk Potion]. The difference is, one weapon leaves you virtually defenseless [Guillotine], and the other does not [Edge].

They also tend to stick inside their own pack, where you can't sight them out, and where they recieve AoS and Poem songs' buffs.

You need to learn some methods of innovation for this. There are several ways to deal with this, and it honestly shouldn't be news to you.

5) Just walk over? Did you not see the damage inflicted everywhere? You want a Scholar to survive that, under focused fire? By the way, LPs do get casted whenever possible. In fact, they get spammed. Frilldora? You want to get inside that pack and die in one second? Yes, one second. You won't even get a chance to spam your recovery items. It seems like you cannot comprehend how much damage is being dealt. This with most characters using 2x Alligators, Raydric, FB, Cranial VS, CK, and an average DEF (excluding VITDEF) of 60.

I have no difficulty comprehending the amount of damage being dealt. In terms of intensity, what I see in this video is very mild, and I see no reason why neither guild is capable of advancing the stage of combat. During offense, a degree of risk is always involved if you wish to progress the combat. I just see a very neutral blockade war that has no progression at all. I really don't see any excuse as to why you guys can't execute a successful offense in this level of WoE [the level is not high, you guys shouldn't be having such stalemates].

P/S: Some of the points I made in earlier posts are targeted at people in Lowrates, who have no wish to achieve equipments higher than the average standard in their server.

Again, being on a low rate is not an excuse to wing poor gears and remain content with mediocrity. High rate or Low rate, you should strive for good equipment and a resourceful setup, and should always take WoE prep very seriously. High rate servers are a joke regardless, so my critique is aimed towards low rate servers in general.

Just to give you an idea of how deadly AD is, since the video apparently failed to make an impact on you; AD is probably being spammed at almost the same rate of DS. YES, DOUBLE STRAFING.

I hope this isn't supposed to impress me. I've seen WoE where over 9 biochemists that achieve instant cast through various means [sometimes Mjolnirs] spam Acid Bomb in 130 Int magic strings, which goes far beyond anything that I see in this video. And yes, I do see at least 6 good opportunities for your guild to have executed a Magnetic Earth-cancel, but none of the opportunities were considered or taken. There are ways to get instant cast on a Scholar, or even a Magic Strings attempt would've been nice to see. I also don't see any Ganbantein at all, which can be performed at quite a range. If your Scholar is dying in "one second", then you need to come up with a different approach [nothing's impossible]. Look for openings; you're up against players, not machines. This is part of knowing the mechanics of your class and how to innovate with it. Of course you will die sometimes, but as I said before, there has to be a degree of risk with executing an offense, or it will be drawn out much longer, increasing the chances of losing your offense and having to regroup. There are numerous other issues I have with this WoE vid but I am not going to go into every one of them, since this is supposed to be a Mastersmith discussion. But I will state that if you can't successfully execute these setups, then I don't think you should be attempting them. Part of achieving a successful WoE is innovation and organization.

[fluidin]

Firstly, your opinion that LR server players should be hardworking is just that. Your opinion. Some people do not feel the same way you do, and that's that. And what about LR servers which actually only have 15-20 active players online daily? And all of them are in 4/5 different guilds?

I know that CK is good. It's just that sometimes it would really be better to use HA. Not always, but some. Again, a personal preference thing. Some people work better with a CK, some with a HA. Don't conform everyone to your standards.

The Tao Gunka, GTB Paladin DEVOTES the creators. How the hell is that a solo effort? GTB > Freeze?! He just stays inside the pack, happily devoting, immune to dispell.

Guillotine > Edge for WS imo. Enough about this.

About the sinxs. Gah. I don't see how you are going to 'innovate'. So let's say they are revealed! All they need to do is just cloak/hide again, or speed pot away, and come back later. Don't tell me Snipers please. Those die to at most 2 ADs, and are a waste of manpower.

I'm not going to go through everyone of your last points and comment on them. "Use strategies, you should know what they are, blahblah." If you're not going to elaborate, then I don't see the point of your post. As 'obvious' as it might seem to you.

God items are non-existent in my server. Yet some still manage to achieve near instant cast w/o custom items too. Far beyond anything in this video? Don't make me laugh. Know that the reason why AD is not being spammed so rapidly by the opposing guild (sometimes) is because my pure FMN gypsy is dancing away in their pack. Anyway. Another obscure phrase. "[the level is not high, you guys shouldn't be having such stalemates]". What in the world do you mean by that? Care to explain?

It isn't really a blockade/stalemate sometimes. Note that many of the jobs played are creators. Ranged combat. Now tell me what is a more advanced stage of combat than two guilds at ranged combat with most of the players as creators? What is your idea of offense, huh? We played this way due to manpower constraints. Please keep that in mind.

I told you. Magnetic Earth is being casted. By both sides! One cancels the other, rinse and repeat. BTW, I don't see how you think that ME is not being casted. The effects aren't even on?!  Maybe you thought that the bulk of damage numbers come from ground-based spells? Nope. Those damage numbers you see? 90% of them comes from AD. A magic strings attempt would have been nice to see? Our clowns are highly disciplined, pure INT/VIT/DEX clowns who rotate those 3 songs repeatedly every 5 seconds or so.

You know what? I think you're s*** most of the time, or misunderstanding the way they fight. The feeling I get is that you're just crapping. Empty talk, no elaboration whatsoever. Maybe the video is misleading? I truly cannot see how players who have played at top-tier official server RO for many years and won international RO championships can be as bad as you claim. Proof that you're better please.

P/S: The server is at nameless island. So if you were thinking of the new eqs, =.=

[Khalin-]

How the hell is that a solo effort?

I made statements about guild efforts, not solo.

GTB > Freeze?!

So every Paladin on the server has GTB? Sorry, I don't know all the details of this server, only what I see in this video.

Guillotine > Edge for WS imo. Enough about this.

I don't think it's a very smart decision to use a two-handed weapon weapon in WoE for going melee against more concentrated guilds. There is nothing good about losing your Cranial.

About the sinxs. Gah. I don't see how you are going to 'innovate'.

I'm going to let this statement speak for itself.

I'm not going to go through everyone of your last points and comment on them. "Use strategies, you should know what they are, blahblah." If you're not going to elaborate, then I don't see the point of your post. As 'obvious' as it might seem to you.

I'm not sure how I can possibly be more clear. I made a lot of statements in my previous post that elaborate on this.

God items are non-existent in my server. Yet some still manage to achieve near instant cast w/o custom items too.

Yes I know, this was the point I was trying to make.

Far beyond anything in this video? Don't make me laugh. Know that the reason why AD is not being spammed so rapidly by the opposing guild (sometimes) is because my pure FMN gypsy is dancing away in their pack.

At first, you're telling me that it's being spammed more than anything you've ever seen before, and now you're changing your statement to "it's not being spammed so much because of my Gypsy". Please choose an argument and stick with it. On the statement of this video not being the best WoE I've ever seen, I'm pretty serious about that. While this scale is pretty resource-heavy and demanding, it's certainly not the highest scale of WoE I've ever seen. I'm pretty sure most people here would agree with me, and from reading about how you speak and your statements [you seem pretty smart], someone with your experience and understanding of these mechanics should understand that this is not top-tier WoE. I'd be inclined to rate this WoE around 7/10 in terms of involvement, organization, perceived prep-work, and how fun it looks.

It isn't really a blockade/stalemate sometimes. Note that many of the jobs played are creators. Ranged combat. Now tell me what is a more advanced stage of combat than two guilds at ranged combat with most of the players as creators?

That's all the video demonstrates. I see no advancing at all, and this video is extremely boring. Besides, pure ranged combat on this scale is ridiculous, and the approach that's shown in these videos is comical, at best. If you don't understand any form of combat higher than this, then I suggest you do some research and re-evaluate your guild's approach to WoE, because this one is very poor.

I told you. Magnetic Earth is being casted. By both sides! One cancels the other, rinse and repeat. BTW, I don't see how you think that ME is not being casted.

I don't see any guild members travel into the opposing guild's side, which leaves me to question how you're performing Magnetic Earth-canceling.

Maybe you thought that the bulk of damage numbers come from ground-based spells?

I don't understand this argument. If there is no Magnetic Earth-canceling, as this video suggests, then that means that both Magnetic Earths stay in place. In this case, no AoE spells could cause any damage. And no, if spells were much more of a presence in this WoE video, then there would be a lot more damage numbers than what I see on here.

You know what? I think you're s*** most of the time

I don't understand why you're so offended just because I don't care for your WoE video very much. Regardless, you shouldn't take my comments so personally. If anything, this is a Mastersmith discussion, so you've let this go too far off-topic.

P/S: The server is at nameless island. So if you were thinking of the new eqs, =.=

Alright, nevermind.

Again, don't take criticism so harshly. I'm stating my opinions [and yes, they are based on experience]. I'd like to see a more involved WoE, so I look forward to your next WoE video. If you choose to share, then please leave it as a comment on my profile, as this topic has gone off-track for long enough.

[fluidin]

Hehe. Firstly, sorry for a few harsh words here and there. I was in a bad mood ytd. My assignments are piling up and driving me crazy.

Nah, not all Paladins. Just one or two, and that's also why there are only one or two coma WS.

hah. I really can't see much in the way of 'innovation'. Care to enlighten me? I'm pretty sure I have seen almost anything that can counter sinxs.

That's why I said sometimes. I know my post about that was a little misleading, hence the sometimes. Sometimes, you see them spam AD so rapidly; those are the times when my Gypsy has no way of getting inside their pack. Those times when they slow down? FMN.

Actually, I agree. This is definitely not top-tier WoE. I misunderstood somewhere. What I was trying to put across is that these are top-tier players. I have seen true top-tier WoEs myself.

About the approach. hehe. Our guild leader is in san fransisco for business these past 2 weeks, and attendance in the meanwhile is really undesirable. We're just playing a style we deem to be effective with a shortage of manpower. We basically treated this WoE as PvP, only with a guild and WoE restrictions. Hence you don't see us breaking emps and defending the emp room. We just feel that there isn't enough manpower to mount an overpowering offensive with the right job composition.

The approach focuses on speed and sticking together. Because you really do not want to get caught out of the pack, where it's instant death. Inside the pack, you get Gospel, songs, slim pitching. Outside, you get focused under AD fire, or the devoted OH champ snaps and speed pots out to Asura you. BTW, we do get past that ranged stage sometimes. Just that it doesn't happen in this video. Feel free to watch through the uploader's other videos... there are tons of other WoE vids.

Err :/ Ok, this vid doesn't really show ME cancelling. Much of it is because the prof just sticks inside our pack and LP, dispel, SC, according to our strategy that woe. By ground-based spells, I mean all those AoEs which are targeted on the ground. SG, LoV, MS, all of them. Indeed, there would be a lot more damage numbers otherwise. Like I said, the job composition wasn't really complete that day. And since everyone has resist pots and Valkyrie shields, those don't even damage much. Hwizzies are used mostly to freeze the frontline, which has GR users sometimes, and those loli plants you see used to reveal hiding/cloaking Sinxs. They also quagmire, and LoV to disrupt AD casting. That was their basic role that WoE. The other guild, the green teardrop one, they love to MS stack. Normally, they would have a Ganbentein wizard, seems like he took leave for that WoE >.>

P/S: About saying you are sh*t, it was supposed to come out as shi*ting. >.<

[Patrick]

fludin if you dont mind, what server are you playing on?