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Offline Funaho

Hall of Shame (copy?)
« on: May 05, 2009, 03:50 pm »
i think its actually hypocritical to discriminate sever copying...

i mean i would like to point out that every private server is in fact a replication and a copy. does that mean that all private servers should be hall of shamed?

i mean the copiers are smiting people who copied them when they themselves r a copy.

does anyone one else feel this ways or perhaps this topic was already introduced?
i also think that in the hall of shame that server copying should be stricken from the copy list, but its not like i care that much.

I'm also curious if anyone agrees with me on this?
YES I HAVE UR IP YES I WILL USE IT YES THEIRS NOTHING CAN DO TO STOP ME FROM TAKING OVER UR COMP MWHAHAHAAHHA

RateMyServer Ragnarok Community

Hall of Shame (copy?)
« on: May 05, 2009, 03:50 pm »

Offline Hutchy

Re: Hall of Shame (copy?)
« Reply #1 on: May 05, 2009, 04:02 pm »
"Copying" Gravity =/= Taking someone's webpage design, etc.
It's rare that I come to RMS anymore. I won't see any messages you leave me here.

Offline A92FL0163

Re: Hall of Shame (copy?)
« Reply #2 on: May 05, 2009, 04:04 pm »
You are right in a way, but what we discriminate isn't the fact people is taking, for example, a healer of a old scripter who donated it to eAthena and it is on two servers, the reason why some server go into the Hall of Shame is either for underhand tactics, which is stealing someone works (Custom Made for the server only) and spamming on other servers, or if they do something like reap on donation money and dissapear.

We do not discriminate servers who pick public stuff that can be added to the server without any permissions and all, we discriminate people blatantly taking someone works and adding to their own server, being the work private and without the owner permission and claiming as their. Nobody can do anything about it legally, so the section was made to warn players of the servers actions and such.

And as taken from the description:
Quote
This section is for reporting doubtful practice done by players or servers that is not in direct violation to our terms. Which means we can do nothing about it but you are free to let people know about the story.

We do not discriminate it because they made a RO server that have taken public things and added to their servers, but we discriminate the X-RO who goes to Y-RO and steal Y-RO works and add to their servers without the owner permission.

Just check the threads there, it isn't about "LOL RO" having Valkyrie Helms featured in >9001 servers, but about "LOL RO" having "LMAO RO" customized unique features.

Hope this answer your question.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2009, 04:06 pm by Parameters »

Offline Funaho

Re: Hall of Shame (copy?)
« Reply #3 on: May 05, 2009, 04:21 pm »
the issue is copying. not hacking spamming or anything else. im not atually looking for a answer rather a debate.

y-ro and x-ro both got their scripts for eathena who copyied IRO

x-ro is stealing codes from y-ro who made their codes for a eathena server which was stolen from Gravity.
not a-z-ro are smiting x-ro for copying when a-z ro are in themselves copyes of gravity.


"Just check the threads there, it isn't about "LOL RO" having Valkyrie Helms featured in >9001 servers, but about "LOL RO" having "LMAO RO" customized unique features."

the thieves are stealing from each other.


and on a further note is having a private server even ethical since its stolen and the only reason why people cant get crushed by the man is that it is a private server even tho it violates every copyright law?
YES I HAVE UR IP YES I WILL USE IT YES THEIRS NOTHING CAN DO TO STOP ME FROM TAKING OVER UR COMP MWHAHAHAAHHA

Offline A92FL0163

Re: Hall of Shame (copy?)
« Reply #4 on: May 05, 2009, 05:45 pm »
the issue is copying. not hacking spamming or anything else. im not atually looking for a answer rather a debate.

y-ro and x-ro both got their scripts for eathena who copyied IRO

x-ro is stealing codes from y-ro who made their codes for a eathena server which was stolen from Gravity.
not a-z-ro are smiting x-ro for copying when a-z ro are in themselves copyes of gravity.


"Just check the threads there, it isn't about "LOL RO" having Valkyrie Helms featured in >9001 servers, but about "LOL RO" having "LMAO RO" customized unique features."

the thieves are stealing from each other.


and on a further note is having a private server even ethical since its stolen and the only reason why people cant get crushed by the man is that it is a private server even tho it violates every copyright law?

You are right in a way, as I said.

Yes, people copy the code from eAthena who copies from Gravity, but the modified codes and unique customs, something you missed is that they do not make it for eAthena, they make it for "their" server, who have not stolen from eAthena, because it is public to anyone. It isn't about people copying the emulator, but rather "stealing" the modified unique information from a server(Which isn't made by Gravity, such as custom sprites and coding), if someone hosted it publicly, then it would be fine, though it's about people taking without permission the codes.

Of course, the ones who are complaining about stealing are also taking it from Gravity itself, but the modifications they do, at least in some way, belong to them (Please don't say anything SS~), sure, those are taken from gravity first, but those supposedly "belongs" to a server. No, there is no system to protect it, and no again, there is no copyright law that would make it belong to them, but it's just a, how may I say, non applied rule. That's why we can't do anything.

Your note is also right, thieves smiting thieves, but isn't there a law that all thieves (or pirates, mate!) follow to keep their own "justice"? I believe the HoS is just to enhance that.

Writing while eating, might end up incoherent.

Offline Funaho

Re: Hall of Shame (copy?)
« Reply #5 on: May 05, 2009, 05:52 pm »
ur last post made more sence.

"let he be without sin cast the first stone?"(and I'm atheist leaning to Buddhism).

i disagree which what Ur kinda stepping around. i think we who are thieves should not go and hate those who steal from us (not hack spam or anything simply steal) i think its wrong to judges others, especially since we are all pro-eathena.

also u didn't get into the ethical portion of this. is using eathena moral? is using software that is a copy of gravity moral?

YES I HAVE UR IP YES I WILL USE IT YES THEIRS NOTHING CAN DO TO STOP ME FROM TAKING OVER UR COMP MWHAHAHAAHHA

Offline Scars

Re: Hall of Shame (copy?)
« Reply #6 on: May 05, 2009, 09:06 pm »
@Topic creator

You made a great point.

Should have brought this to RUNE, but they're pretty much dead.

Offline Funaho

Re: Hall of Shame (copy?)
« Reply #7 on: May 06, 2009, 01:54 am »
rune i have faith in them they hitting a dry spell, but i respect what they do. however i dont think you can tell thieves to not sell ur stuff.

i think everyone should atleast give credit. everyserver should have somewere "this is a eathena server which is a replication of the original gravity it has been script modiefied by these users and the sprites came from (here)."

i know alot of server fail to give proper credit to the original authors. ya if a server admited they they stole sprites form another server. and came out in the open with all that. i would have loads of repsect for that server and even play it. (its a requirement for me to play a server)
YES I HAVE UR IP YES I WILL USE IT YES THEIRS NOTHING CAN DO TO STOP ME FROM TAKING OVER UR COMP MWHAHAHAAHHA

Offline horo

Re: Hall of Shame (copy?)
« Reply #8 on: May 06, 2009, 10:43 am »
I wish eathena was an exact replica of aegis  :'(

Offline Raistlin

Re: Hall of Shame (copy?)
« Reply #9 on: May 06, 2009, 10:58 am »
Quote
i think we who are thieves should not go and hate those who steal from us (not hack spam or anything simply steal) i think its wrong to judges others, especially since we are all pro-eathena.

Please refrain from bringing morality arguments without first showing us why the particular standard should be used. There will be people who believe in absolute standards. Just because you believe that it may be wrong to judge someone doesn't mean that others will.

A note: I don't find everything you said to be wrong. Nor do I want to make you look bad/whatever. Since you're looking for a debate, you might as well get one. I would assume that we debate because we want to understand the other's perspective better. Or ...you could always be trying to stir up trouble. Whichever one it is, I hope it's the former.

The hall of shame acts as a sort of community organization. A form of government, so to speak, albeit a very loose one. RMS has no ability to really enforce anything - however, it can serve as a warning to the rest of the community.

As for why copying from other servers is wrong...

In this case, I think a great deal of us would agree that there is a common level of decency when it comes to work of this sort of nature. That's what one of the posters above said in terms of "pirate's law."

The reason why server copying is bad, at least according to me, is because it's plagiarism.

You understand the idea behind plagiarism, correct? You realize that in the academic world, plagiarism carries serious consequences. As someone already pointed it out, it's taking someone else's work without giving them credit nor having obtained their permission ahead of time.

The argument that they're just "theives stealing from thieves" is analogous to modern research in the natural science. It could be seen that every scientist today is building off of someone else's ideas. "stealing," so to speak. Are scientists, then, also thieves stealing from thieves?

Quote
i disagree which what Ur kinda stepping around. i think we who are thieves should not go and hate those who steal from us (not hack spam or anything simply steal) i think its wrong to judges others, especially since we are all pro-eathena.

Quote
"let he be without sin cast the first stone?"(and I'm atheist leaning to Buddhism).

So you're telling us that it's wrong to hack and spam but it's not wrong to steal? Don't tell me you've never seen servers fighting spamwars.What makes hacking and spamming so much more wrong than stealing, then? A sin's a sin's a sin, according to your logic.

Quote
i know alot of server fail to give proper credit to the original authors. ya if a server admited they they stole sprites form another server. and came out in the open with all that. i would have loads of repsect for that server and even play it. (its a requirement for me to play a server)

Why?

You're absolutely right. Once something goes on the internet, it becomes "public domain" in the sense that everyone can steal/use it, depending on how you look at it.

The question here is does the mere fact of something becoming public means that all shards of integrity should be thrown out of the window?
« Last Edit: May 06, 2009, 11:14 am by Raistlin »

Offline horo

Re: Hall of Shame (copy?)
« Reply #10 on: May 06, 2009, 12:10 pm »
really hard not to make a joke about thieves stealing original content (skills) with plagiarism.

Offline fluidin

Re: Hall of Shame (copy?)
« Reply #11 on: May 06, 2009, 12:49 pm »
My opinion would be, treat each case seperately.

For example, both X and Y, private server owners, stole from Z (Gravity).

So both should be punished, or at least treated with an equal amount of blame for that.

Now, if X creates a custom sprite, or something totally unrelated to Gravity's works from scratch, and Y steals it, Y is at fault here, and X is purely a victim. This is treated as a seperate case.

Since everyone sins, you cannot really allow someone to be on higher moral ground than you just because of other "sins" you have committed, while the trial is only on ONE crime.

Like Rais said, standards differ amongst people. Morality is also too multi-tiered and personal for there to be a universal standard. You cannot exactly judge someone purely based on morals.
XileRo is the only HR I know that has a reasonable PvP system. I did watch the RWC like you said, all I see is people spamming the room like every other gang fight there is in RO.

Offline LemonCrosswalk

Re: Hall of Shame (copy?)
« Reply #12 on: May 06, 2009, 01:02 pm »
You're trying to compare eathena's open source philosophy with exclusive material made by servers.

Offline Funaho

Re: Hall of Shame (copy?)
« Reply #13 on: May 06, 2009, 02:34 pm »
ok ok i get what u say. but, are we all in agreement that servers as soon as they are made are inherently bad and can get worse?
YES I HAVE UR IP YES I WILL USE IT YES THEIRS NOTHING CAN DO TO STOP ME FROM TAKING OVER UR COMP MWHAHAHAAHHA

Descent

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Re: Hall of Shame (copy?)
« Reply #14 on: May 06, 2009, 02:39 pm »
ok ok i get what u say. but, are we all in agreement that servers as soon as they are made are inherently bad and can get worse?

No. And to be honest, I find it hard trying to grasp your point.