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Author Topic: Biggest problems of Ragnarok online?  (Read 10899 times)

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Offline Kyo-Kusanagi-aka-GuessWho

Biggest problems of Ragnarok online?
« on: Apr 25, 2016, 12:08 am »
Everyone in this forum loves RO. Dont we? Despite the fact, that the game was released years ago - its still one of the most played MMORPS.
The much we love the game and put efford into it - the more often we encounter problems, bugs or some other problems that never were fixed or arent considered as such.
Allow me to make myself clear: I still love the game from the button of my heart.
But of course I also have some critic points.

I think the main reason why RO wasnt that succesful in the western world  as it was on asia is because Ragnarok online was never central. And this is my first point.
The main problem is. KoreanRO is the original server and the first one to get its updates. Right? So, its the one that every other server should be like. Gravity sold the game into licenses. It means, that those who bought the licenses could change and shape RO into what they want. It differs too much from the main game.
Gravity should made ragnarok online central from the very beginning where kRO plays the main role and is the role model for every other servers like iRO, pRO, bRO, fRO should be also controlled by gravity because its the original game studio and not selling stupid licenses to third parties... The other servers should be also administrated by gravity itself with only the difference that the other servers should be in the langauge of the country of origin. But the game itself, its mechanics should be exactly like kRO! The asian servers were handled and treated much better than the european/international ones.
Also, it was the biggest mistake of Gravity to cut Ragnarok online into regions. Of course, RO should be region locked in order to prevent lags etc and for better timing at events like WOE.
But there should be only Ragnarok online where you would have to select the region you are from, and of course your IP has to be the same IP of the region you selected. In order to prevent scamm.
Because of the multiple versions of Ro that are out there, gives the feeling that RO isnt a single game. It also makes RO look much much smaller as it is. Imagine when you enter the login interface and you see a number of those people who currently are playing RO - on all regions. Because of the multiple, different versions of RO, we're not quite a Unity. There should no be a kRO, eRO, iRO, bRO, pRO but rather RO. I hope I made myself clear. Just one version of RO would help for example make bug fixing much much easier because there are millions of people out there who can report back bugs, glichtees, errors to the devlopers. Now there are like 20 different RO versions where 20 different companies and developers are behind. It makes bug reporting, bug fixing really a work like hell.
Imagine what RO could look like when we played the same version, the same client from the very beginning. And with the current situation, they need to fix some problems on the RO versions individually on all versions sometimes.

if I was on the position of Gravity I would just bring one RO to the market, make it region locked where you have to select your region IP in the log in interface. Hell what a gaming experience we could have enjoyed.

My second point is the original developers. The decison of the original  Lead-Designer of RO Kim Hakkyu to leave was the biggest damage for the game we all love. I really wounder how RO would look like if the original developers stayed there. I never had the feeling that the RO from the Beta is different form the RO of now in terms of graphic design, game mechanichs, but it still confuses me till this day.
Gravity should at least tried to make a offer to mister Kim Hakkyu to het him back. AND I do know that it was Gravity who acted like a d***.

My third point is the netcode. Well, there were games with a worse netcode than RO. But I do believe, that the netcode of RO isnt developed yet. Am I the only one who keeps woundering why, that for example when you hit 190 ASPD and you attack a monster as sniper, the monster reacts to the attack with a little delay. I mean for example when a monster hits to a firewall, his animation is delayed  and then is suddenly near you. I think people who played Multiplayer shooters like Metal gear online 2 know what im talking about.
Wouldnt be possible to improve the netcode somehow?

Sorry for my english, im not a native englishmen :((
« Last Edit: Apr 25, 2016, 12:35 am by Kyo-Kusanagi-aka-GuessWho »
Ragnarok Online Player since the very Beta. I'm still in love with the game.

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Offline Yuzo

Re: Biggest problems of Ragnarok online?
« Reply #1 on: Apr 25, 2016, 09:50 am »
RO is a guilty pleasure to a lot of people, much like anime. In the Western world, people would think you're a weirdo if you play RO, just like how a good amount of people think all anime is hentai bs.

Offline Kyo-Kusanagi-aka-GuessWho

Re: Biggest problems of Ragnarok online?
« Reply #2 on: Apr 25, 2016, 12:28 pm »
I dont think that way. Many people in the western world are already anime fans and not every RO player is a anime fan. RO's design may be some kind of anime style but Anime and RO is still different. I do indeed believe that the wider people play RO because of its unique game mechanics and game experience - like me. Not because its designed in a anime style. And not all asian are anime fans too.
I've had friends who played RO too and didint watch much anime series.
When I started to play the open beta version, I didint know much things about Anime. I, as a person also like animes but Im not the greatest fan.
Ragnarok Online Player since the very Beta. I'm still in love with the game.

Offline Blinzer

Re: Biggest problems of Ragnarok online?
« Reply #3 on: Apr 25, 2016, 10:30 pm »
there's a lot of assumptions you made here which are completely wrong, but i'm going to address the only one that is important enough for me to care

the western world is full of people who like RO, and i don't even know how you possibly concluded otherwise

what mechanics are different on kRO compared to RO how we play it?

Offline Kyo-Kusanagi-aka-GuessWho

Re: Biggest problems of Ragnarok online?
« Reply #4 on: Apr 26, 2016, 12:16 pm »
If you think im wrong, say to me at which point. Saying, that im mostly wrong without telling me at which point is pretty much cheap.
By game mechanics, I mean for example if a server is f2p or subscription, Pk, VIP system much more. if a game has implented things like the Eden group on iRo and many other things. I hope you understand what I mean. Most people who didint play on a official server and especially not kRo/iRO dont know exactly what Ro is. The asian servers and iRo comes close a bit close to the original but still the game differs a bit. I think there should be just one RO Server.

Yes, there are also RO fans like me in the western wrorld, but RO in asia is much more popular and everybody who knows RO knows this fact. It's obvious. Just look at the philipine and indonesia.
I didint said that RO is unkown in the western world, but when comparing the fanbase of RO in asia and in the western world, we can clearly say, that RO is more popular in asia.
And I gave reasons why RO is more popular in asia. Even the ex-lead designer of RO Kim Hakkyu said once that RO was not that popular in the western world like it is in Asia and he wanted to make a game to appeal everyone. (Or was it Gravity???)
 
Maybe, I used the wrong word, I shouldnt have said mechanics, lets rather say in game content.
Ragnarok Online Player since the very Beta. I'm still in love with the game.

Offline annaquin

Re: Biggest problems of Ragnarok online?
« Reply #5 on: Apr 26, 2016, 04:32 pm »
I think the problem is cultural differences ...

The most damage done to Ragnarok Online was american players killing the most basic ... free for all. They constantly qqing about KSing and wanted to inject their twisted mind into the game. The minute anti ks was done, you couldn't mob train anymore, nor enjoy partying like it was before.

In alpha version, I was a thief and was abble to dodge almost anything, so swordman could enjoy paryting with a dodger.

In beta version, mage was enjoying thief or tank the same as before with a little extra for acolyte

But then thai and americans players couldn't stand each others, thai were enjoying ksing, mob stealing and 555 everyone , it was a pure game of contest of who kill first, who is smarter and who hunt in better spot. Finally americans won and claiming monster was created in the game.

Then the game started to be the most boring grinding game ever .. you had to grind 10000 monster to get a single card ( vitata card :( ) and new developper were hired to tried to make a boring game funny again. They ran after almost gone players ...

And the code leaked .. damage another fraction of the community ... I can't say seol knew what is was doing, but hacking the code ( unprotected ) seriously blow up any change of RO to retaliate. Kim was so disgusted that he left the company while Gravty was already on the verge of bankruptcy. From that day, Gravity was always under pressure of cash and investissors grew impatient all the time , make community worried a primary course of action.

The game started to be a contest of who riot and rage the more. Coders were insulted almost anytime , and bugs and errors started to be the de facto standard.

What saved the game, was a new form of gaming, RMT ( Real Money Trading ). By accident, a farmer found out korean players couldn't wait much and were prefering buying time with RMT item. Farmers became a new job and the invasion started with sponsor for kore and openkore.

What finished to damage the game finally was the join effort of paradox, sabu, nretep, vanh ... and me probably. By allowing any retard to run a code more and more competitive as a server, the community split away from gravity and went wild but out of control. Those days were you couldn't count 6000 servers running and claiming to be the best where it was only a pure scam...

All in all, only marging changes has be made to the game, vanro, nyro  and talestory were the more customized and almost complety new game ... but most admin has no diploma in psychology, nor social engeneering and even less in international relationship. Most of game admin were dumb amateur fooling around with countless of hours wasted in game content.

Nobody care about the flaw of the game...

AI of monster still remain dumb
Party leveling still didn't cancel level differences ( so you couldn't even invite your friend to play with you due to the 3 months of exp ..)
Exp sharing never been fixed nor studies
Spawn of monster dynamicly adapted to population as well as drop rate strategy...
Economy game content offere never even been care of ...

Now Tree of Savior is taking the lead, more classes , more balance, more modern and strategy  ...



Offline snowblind

Re: Biggest problems of Ragnarok online?
« Reply #6 on: Apr 26, 2016, 04:58 pm »
When I played on the official euRO server, the client and the mechanics were exactly as on kRO, just that updates were quite delayed. Not sure what your point is here. The only notable difference was that euRO never went free2play, and didn't go crazy with the cash shop items. We only got headgears, although some were a bit controversial like the Flying Evil Wings iirc. From what I saw, iRO only started diverging slightly from kRO around the time Renewal came out.

Speaking of which, renewal was probably the biggest mistake. It should be clear that you will alienate a lot of your playerbase if you completely change the mechanics and the feel of a game. It was an unnecessary decision and just further proves that RO had terrible developers for most of its lifespan. Although apart from that, all the weird bugs that were never fixed didn't really take away from the experience. Standards for smooth and convenient online gaming didn't really exist back then.

RO could still be big if the community was united, yes. But I don't think the main problem was Gravity giving licenses to other regions. The playerbase was split because of
1. Pay2play model, and later Pay2Win, which lead to private servers getting popular.
2. Private servers offered much more content, including gameplay that wasn't entirely based on an endless grindfest.
3. Renewal split the players even further
4. Because of how easy it is to make a private server and fail miserably, players were divided further and further, and more players are lost everytime a server closes.
5. The fact that servers keep opening and closing creates yet another problem: PvP/WoE players are not willing to start over on a lowrate, but lowrate players think that higher rates destroy the game (not to mention the cheats that WoE players have become accustomed to, although many of them only make the game less stupid and frustrating for modern standards). Another split happens. The thing is, WoE guilds are mostly established now and don't really take new players, because mid-high-rates are usually less social. You won't make too many friends on random parties, so you won't feel any attachment to the server.

There just needs to be a single, perfect private server that pleases at least 50% of the current playerbase AND continues to attract players who are new to RO. If the server is that good and keeps growing, even the remaining 50%, the lazy players, will eventually play there because the investment will be worth it. But I think we all know that such a server will never come out. The community is already split too far, and our trust has been broken too many times.

The only hope I see for RO is for Gravity to go bankrupt, so that another studio can take over, learn from the success of private servers, and actually make a good game out of RO. Not something new, just something that can be hyped but still has all the good qualities of classic RO, including the artstyle.

Offline Hell if I know

Re: Biggest problems of Ragnarok online?
« Reply #7 on: Apr 26, 2016, 09:33 pm »
Biggest RO problems:

1. Anyone can make a server for free
2. Renewal

Offline Kyo-Kusanagi-aka-GuessWho

Re: Re: Biggest problems of Ragnarok online?
« Reply #8 on: Apr 27, 2016, 08:32 am »
When I played on the official euRO server, the client and the mechanics were exactly as on kRO, just that updates were quite delayed. Not sure what your point is here. The only notable difference was that euRO never went free2play, and didn't go crazy with the cash shop items. We only got headgears, although some were a bit controversial like the Flying Evil Wings iirc. From what I saw, iRO only started diverging slightly from kRO around the time Renewal came out.

Speaking of which, renewal was probably the biggest mistake. It should be clear that you will alienate a lot of your playerbase if you completely change the mechanics and the feel of a game. It was an unnecessary decision and just further proves that RO had terrible developers for most of its lifespan. Although apart from that, all the weird bugs that were never fixed didn't really take away from the experience. Standards for smooth and convenient online gaming didn't really exist back then.

RO could still be big if the community was united, yes. But I don't think the main problem was Gravity giving licenses to other regions. The playerbase was split because of
1. Pay2play model, and later Pay2Win, which lead to private servers getting popular.
2. Private servers offered much more content, including gameplay that wasn't entirely based on an endless grindfest.
3. Renewal split the players even further
4. Because of how easy it is to make a private server and fail miserably, players were divided further and further, and more players are lost everytime a server closes.
5. The fact that servers keep opening and closing creates yet another problem: PvP/WoE players are not willing to start over on a lowrate, but lowrate players think that higher rates destroy the game (not to mention the cheats that WoE players have become accustomed to, although many of them only make the game less stupid and frustrating for modern standards). Another split happens. The thing is, WoE guilds are mostly established now and don't really take new players, because mid-high-rates are usually less social. You won't make too many friends on random parties, so you won't feel any attachment to the server.

There just needs to be a single, perfect private server that pleases at least 50% of the current playerbase AND continues to attract players who are new to RO. If the server is that good and keeps growing, even the remaining 50%, the lazy players, will eventually play there because the investment will be worth it. But I think we all know that such a server will never come out. The community is already split too far, and our trust has been broken too many times.

The only hope I see for RO is for Gravity to go bankrupt, so that another studio can take over, learn from the success of private servers, and actually make a good game out of RO. Not something new, just something that can be hyped but still has all the good qualities of classic RO, including the artstyle.
Much of what you said is true. But it is really hard to make a server that appeals to 50% of the fanbase of RO. and yes, Highrate are indeed stupid and less social. Last great Server I was playing was DivinityRO.
I still believe that RO not being united killed a lot of the potential of the game.
« Last Edit: Apr 27, 2016, 01:27 pm by Kyo-Kusanagi-aka-GuessWho »
Ragnarok Online Player since the very Beta. I'm still in love with the game.

Offline Yuzo

Re: Biggest problems of Ragnarok online?
« Reply #9 on: Apr 27, 2016, 12:01 pm »
Still a lot of elites who think the only part of ro is grinding, leveling and boring sh1t. When private servers came out, we realised there was a whole other side to the game. These people think they are god's gift to this community, but they have the most closed minds and think anything not remotely close to official ro is a monstrosity.

Offline Kyo-Kusanagi-aka-GuessWho

Re: Biggest problems of Ragnarok online?
« Reply #10 on: Apr 27, 2016, 01:29 pm »
Im assuming that you are talking to me, I never said, that its only about grinding but most private servers and especially Highrates and superrates dont have anything to do with RO anymore.
Midrates and lowrates are acceptable. However, you think servers with Equip with 500+ Str are another side of RO?
Ragnarok Online Player since the very Beta. I'm still in love with the game.

Offline Yuzo

Re: Re: Biggest problems of Ragnarok online?
« Reply #11 on: Apr 28, 2016, 02:12 am »
However, you think servers with Equip with 500+ Str are another side of RO?
Absolutely. I've played the best of them and they are nothing like low rates. Your post just shows your superiority complex. You pretty much labelled them 'not RO'. You think you are the only ones who can save this game. "Nothing is right unless it is this way." Well I've got words for you -open up your god damned mind.

Offline snowblind

Re: Re: Re: Biggest problems of Ragnarok online?
« Reply #12 on: Apr 28, 2016, 04:10 am »
Much of what you said is true. But it is really hard to make a server that appeals to 50% of the fanbase of RO. and yes, Highrate are indeed stupid and less social. Last great Server I was playing was DivinityRO.
I still believe that RO not being united killed a lot of the potential of the game.
I didn't say highrates were stupid =p Just that they split the community. I was talking about Level 99 mid-highrates though.

Super highrates with Level >99 can be fun too, but here the split is even more unavoidable. A possible approach would be to offer two servers with shared management, forums and a complementing WoE schedule. I've seen it happen many years ago, but not anymore.

Offline Yuzo

Re: Re: Re: Re: Biggest problems of Ragnarok online?
« Reply #13 on: Apr 28, 2016, 05:05 am »
I didn't say highrates were stupid =p Just that they split the community
How do they split the community? They are a part of the community...

Offline snowblind

Re: Biggest problems of Ragnarok online?
« Reply #14 on: Apr 28, 2016, 12:16 pm »
How do they split the community? They are a part of the community...
Sure, but they don't interact much. I think most of us have played lowrate/classic RO before trying anything else. That's where we all come from, but since then, many people have moved their comfort zone to different rates.

Personally, I won't even consider a server anymore where I have to level on <50x rates or grind cards/zeny for hours to achieve anything (assuming official mobs, items, exp tables). But as you said, many refuse the not-so-official way to play. I will never get to know those people, because we are split onto different servers.