Server Lag

Started by yuera, May 21, 2012, 12:16 AM

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Variant

#15
Quote from: leokimah on May 22, 2012, 04:14 PM
There is another thread floating around these forums with a few helpful post from old server admins regarding this issue. I think the problem is that most people (server owners) are too ignorant to handle such attacks.

Well don't be too cynical. DDoS attacks aren't exactly easy to stop even with the really expensive stuff. Attempting to DDoS big/popular games like WoW will just lead to a lot of trouble (lawsuits to name an obvious one), so it's protected in the sense that a 7-eleven is protected via security cameras and the law.

Large companies have an easier time just because people generally don't want to mess with them.

From my own experience, the best way to prevent a DDoS is to:

-block all unnecessary ports/use ports that people wouldn't guess as easily (not just the default eA/rA ones)
-try to hide your IP somehow (be clever!)
-Find some way to prevent 3rd party programs from attaching onto your client so they can't just get you through your client (doesn't harmony prevent hooks? Some of the newer clients actually check every few seconds if you hooked something on and will force close)

I mean honestly, all that's really necessary for a DDoS is your IP, and with a little research and digging, a person could easily do it. If you host a CP or something via your server, that could be an issue too (port 80 isn't exactly an easy port to monitor traffic through). This is why it's so hard to stop, you can't exactly block all your ports, and I doubt the majority of private servers have the capability to track down the person doing the DDoS, let alone file a lawsuit.

I agree with Yukino, it is pretty sad when people resort to DDoS when they dislike something. It's like throwing rocks at your teacher's car because you failed their test.

leokimah

You must be new to the private server scene. Do you know how easy it is to make a server now? Go look on eA or rA forums w/e they are called now.

I'd say about 80% of the new servers owners today have no clue to what they are doing. Which is why you see servers dying after a couple of months (a lot of factors there to cause that). You really think someone who was basically spoon fed their server setup will know how to deal with a DDoS?

A little off topic, but my statement still stands firm.

Triper

You don't even need to go to their forums, just buy a VPS with already it installed  /heh[/offtopic]

Do you even think they[the 80% you talk] know what is a DDoS until they get one? I do really think that a lot of the "new" admins nowadays just think that they can construct a better server then the ones they're playing because they've money and forget the rest[yeah, dreams are cool, having the guts and the power to construct them at 100% without flaws is another story because experience and knowledge isn't something that you can buy to and insert into yourself with a click].

I remember to see a High Rate[got invited by a friend and his girlfriend to play it] like 1 year ago where the eathena version used was one super old[you could reflect HW bio 3 skills with a Soul Linker and everybody was abusing that there and no, it wasn't a custom, it was a very old version of eathena used that the admin modified and never updated because he said that was working fine and wasn't needed lol] that got one and the admin was at the forum saying that he didn't know what was happening. I think his post was something like:
QuoteHi, players of something something RO I dunno what the server is going into. I contacted the host and they said something about DDs or something similar that I have no clue about what is it. We're doing our best to fix the server fast but we're, at the moment, with our hands tied.
Hope you all understand what the server is going through and give us a chance to have this fix. Happy gaming.
Yeah, I dunno what was the name of the server but doesn't matter, it was a lulzy moment anyway.

Variant

#18
Quote from: leokimah on May 24, 2012, 02:00 PM
You must be new to the private server scene. Do you know how easy it is to make a server now? Go look on eA or rA forums w/e they are called now.

I'd say about 80% of the new servers owners today have no clue to what they are doing. Which is why you see servers dying after a couple of months (a lot of factors there to cause that). You really think someone who was basically spoon fed their server setup will know how to deal with a DDoS?

A little off topic, but my statement still stands firm.

No, I'm not new to the private server scene, what made you think that? If anything, it seems like you're new to the whole idea of a DDoS attack if you think that it's possible to stop with just a bit of research and reading a few posts. Unless you're heavily involved in the field and/or have access to relatively expensive resources which aren't that easy to get access to anyway, you really aren't going to be stopping a DDoS attack whether you're new or old. Ergo, I called you cynical.

When I administrated SunriseRO (a super high rate) a few years ago, we'd get DDoSed every now and again, and so I'm speaking from actual experience and what I found to be the best and most inexpensive methods to deal with a DDoS, and that was literally just... hide the information and make it hard for the average script kiddy to get their hands on. If it got bad, we had professional options, but we never really had to resort to them. A basic DDoS attack isn't difficult to setup and there are guides on it on the internet detailing methods of doing it pretty easily.

Now to join your offtopic topic:

I was reading this post on the forums and laughed at the end with the 'special place in your heart' thing. It's all an experience in the end, if people are motivated they'll learn and keep the dream going, if not, well, that's one more failed experience for everyone else to learn from. And if you aren't really into the whole server-creating thing, at least it's some 'lulz' right?

leokimah

#19
Please tell me where in any of my post did i say it was simple to deal with? Before you go and dig it up the thread i was referring to was a discussion about the subject not a "how to deal with it". Reading comprehension too hard these days it seems.


Variant

Do you really need to feed your ego to the point where you can't just accept the fact that I called you cynical for being cynical?

QuoteYou really think someone who was basically spoon fed their server setup will know how to deal with a DDoS?

To which I replied:

Quoteyou really aren't going to be stopping a DDoS attack whether you're new or old

I never said that you said it was simple to deal with, you just seemed to be bashing on a lot of people at once with some high and mighty arrogance so I decided to inform you about DDoS in a topic about server lag (which relates to DDoS). Informing a wider variety of people who might actually want that information was a pretty nice bonus.

Any other questions?

leokimah

#21
Quote from: Variant on May 24, 2012, 08:21 PM
I never said that you said it was simple to deal with, you just seemed to be bashing on a lot of people at once with some high and mighty arrogance.

I'm only bashing on the 15 year olds who buy servers and ruin this game for others. Keep that in mind when you read my previous post in this thread.

Edit: Now that i have the time to reply.

It's not about preventing an attack cause you can't (unless you bought a really expensive protection). It's about how you deal with it WHEN you get an attack.

Make some deflate/redirection scripts
Optimize TCP/IP settings
Get more bandwidth
Buy an expensive DDoS protection (your not going to find anything under 1500usd a month)

Some host (softlayer) provide a 24 hour only protection. So if you want a reliable protection your going to have to spend the big bucks.

That is all i can think of right now. I'll edit this post when more come to mind.

Quote from: Variant on May 24, 2012, 05:56 AM
Well don't be too cynical. DDoS attacks aren't exactly easy to stop even with the really expensive stuff. Attempting to DDoS big/popular games like WoW will just lead to a lot of trouble (lawsuits to name an obvious one), so it's protected in the sense that a 7-eleven is protected via security cameras and the law.

Large companies have an easier time just because people generally don't want to mess with them.

This is very untrue. Games like WoW and League of Legends get attacked all the time. Just as Yukino assumed they can hide it very well.

Variant

QuoteI'm only bashing on the 15 year olds who buy servers and ruin this game for others.

In a topic asking about server lag you decided to bring a ton of hate for some reason, so I'm actually still confused. Even after reading all of your previous posts with that in mind >_>.

Quote from: leokimah on May 24, 2012, 08:35 PM
This is very untrue. Games like WoW and League of Legends get attacked all the time. Just as Yukino assumed they can hide it very well.

My bad, I should have said that they have it easier because they have the resources and manpower to deal with it. The lawsuits are a very true thing by the way, those do happen all the time when misinformed people who arrogantly think that a DDoS attack makes it impossible to track them (some people can make it very hard and effectively impossible, or just be in a different country, or both). A friend of mines works at a law firm and (though not for Blizzard, but for subsidiaries of companies like Sybase and the like) has dealt with lawsuits regarding DDoS attacks (along with other malicious data manipulation), I'm pretty sure most of them are internal in the U.S, but I'm not absolutely sure. So it is a common occurrence that you just don't hear about.

I was wrong about people not wanting to mess with large companies though, I dunno why I said that, guess the words were just flowing.

leokimah

That's just how i post. Nothing personal.

After you have played this game as long as i have, jumping from server to server every 1-2 months due to ignorant/incompetent server owners you'll understand where I'm coming from. I finally had to resort to rejoining iRO (official server) to get some sort of enjoyment from the game.