3rd Classes

Started by Konata, May 15, 2011, 12:46 AM

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Konata

I'm a player that looks for 3rd jobs when searching for a server. Mostly because I've played on pre-renewal servers so much it makes me want to vomit when I log in and see nothing but trans classes, and I want something new to play with. Yet everywhere I look it says "No 3rd Jobs", or "Trans-only". What I don't understand is why people hate them so much. The most common answer I get is "imbalanced". My counter-question, if iRO's staff (in their infinite wisdom) could run a server with 3rd jobs, why can't anyone else? And I know iRO is well, iRO (default rates on everything), but even low rates or just default level cap servers (99 or 150) feed me the imbalance card when I ask.

And before it happens, please spare me the flaming and sarcasm; I'm asking an honest question and want honest answers. Thank you.

Mushu

Go to iRO wiki or Warp Portal forums. You'll see the endless complaints of 200k+ Spirals on MvPs from LKs, not even RKs as spiral damage is based off of gear, not stats/level, you'll see people moaning and crying about how Suras are one shot wonders, except now, instead of one shotting someone, and then being useless for like 3-4 seconds, they have this cool new skill called Gates of Hell that is much more spammable than Asura Strike. Royal Guards are just destructive offensive and defensive. Most people have ditched the supportive Devotion build, and gone for offensive killing skills while reflecting mass amounts of damage. Rune Knights, if they have Tao Gunka card, can apparently kill whole guilds within a matter of seconds (2-3 dragon's breath), for this reason, everyone wears fire armor. Did I mention how partying is useless in renewal when grinding regular monsters? Doing lh3 is pointless as it's not any faster than places where you can solo (Base/Job Exp:HP ratio is bad). You say that iRO's staff can run a renewal server, thing is - hundreds of players left when both their god items were disassembled in the premium server mega merge and when renewal hit, as they were both very close in time frame. iRO is dying, and pretty fast in my opinion. Ymir can't even get 1k+ players, Ygg has like less than 400 and Valkyrie only has near 2k because 1/3 are venders and 1/3 are bots. iRO is now a giant cash shop and everyone knows it (or at least the top players do...) but they've already invested so much time into that server that they think they might as well have fun with it. From what I hear though, jRO is doing GREAT and kRO is doing okay, pretty sure pRO and bRO are also doing pretty well considering there is a massive amount of pinoys and BRs even in p. servers. If iRO survives until Diablo 3 comes out, I'll be very shocked (I except Blizz is now actively working on d3 since WoW has started to die), so 2-3 years max before iRO closes. It was a good decade for them I guess, getting a GM's account stolen a few weeks after getting out of beta, having the whole server hacked a few years ago, etc.

Triper

This is my reason but probably the same for some people: The mechanics of renewal suck.

3rd class are cool in sprites, have +/- OK and expected skills[honestly I would expect a bit more on some like Wanderer/Ministrel] but the way that thing works is horrible! RO was ok, for me at pre-renewal and I still like it with the mechanics it has - having 150 dex for insta isn't easy and accessible to everybody[even if now is more then never with the stuff available], bragi was a perfect need to be able to spam stuff, etc. It was ok but with renewal the mechanics change to wth is this?! They told that people would party more with renewal[party where??? it's even worse now to party], the drops from non-mvp/mini-boss have a penalty now if you're not in range of lvl[srs, who made this is stupid, what will be next, a no-exp item?], some skills changed from OK to BAD - AV lvling is s*** and impossible, DS have a cooldown and a cast bar!![srs, what?], some stupid and bad skills are now the s*** to spam and nuke every single s*** around, you don't need almost no gear to lvl[even if the aspd penalty with a shield is a cool thing to me since makes it more real and actually makes sense!], people at woe is OK KO with 1 skill or aspd or forget to try kill, some promises were totally ignored[lalalalala 2 hand shields from royal guard lalalalalala], etc.
Renewal is a cool idea but sucks on the concept and this is the reason you've a RO2 being done and a renewal being still not near finished.
I've seen more KRO players nowadays on pservers then ever and they tell me the same thing always - kro renewal sucks, no more usual log, hunt something for fun, log out. I'm tired of wasting money on that thing.

I'm betting that if someone makes a pre-renewal server with 3rd classes with the new maps and adapted that all to pre-renewal and actually balanced, it will be the s*** if well managed.

LeaLea

3rd classes made it less of a team game, and more of a "ZERG RUN KILL" game. That's not what the game is supposed to be. One day you can go in and kill everyone, and the next get completely wiped. If they wanted to do this, they could have at least taken their time and done it properly. It's just so insanely horrible at the moment. The only place where it slightly works is on HR, or on officals.

Gene

Quote from: Triper on May 15, 2011, 12:28 PM
This is my reason but probably the same for some people: The mechanics of renewal suck.

They told that people would party more with renewal[party where??? it's even worse now to party], the drops from non-mvp/mini-boss have a penalty now if you're not in range of lvl[srs, who made this is stupid, what will be next, a no-exp item?]

I'm betting that if someone makes a pre-renewal server with 3rd classes with the new maps and adapted that all to pre-renewal and actually balanced, it will be the s*** if well managed.

This. I really can't believe RO changed almost everything just to fit 3rds in. Why don't they just adjust 3rd classes instead of the whole RO thing for balance. I miss the good old nameless parties, hard to kill MVPs, and days of Les grinding.

Triper

That's why when Trans arrived it was the WIN and with 3rd classes it ends with like half win, half lose.

Croissant

I pretty much dislike them because I hate Renewal, and they require those mechanics. It wouldn't be so bad if, somehow, they didn't need Renewal.

Anti-Static Foam Cleaner

3rd classes were never planned so they had to stretch the entire system and awkwardly squeeze them in somehow.
They make trans mostly pointless.
Trans had some stupidly powerful skills already, and 3rd classes are even worse.
Their sprites mostly suck.
And the Renewal sucks.

Majinken Souga

I think the problem is most private servers don't even have full renewal mechanics with their third jobs. It's just, "here are the classes, here's the server, play!"

The transition may have been smoother if eAthena hadn't waited so long. -_-

Is that to say officials are balanced? Of course not, and they probably never will be. Some players say trans isn't even balanced.

Honestly, I'm not surprised that private servers and officials are losing players.
The only way to save Modern TV: burn it in a pile, then burn the ashes, then compress and burn those ashes, then sprinkle it with holy water, then send the result into a black hole and never see it again.

phranxis

#9
seriously...
why did they even make 3rd classes.

they made extended classes,
so why not just use theyre time to really extend those classes
so that new play styles can emerge
instead of wasting time on jobs that even mvps' cant handle

they made official servers look more like p.server with 3rd jobs

JinRO

Yeah i agree with everyone..thats the reason why i dont like servers with 3rd job classes cos even if i follow the official calculations of skill formula from iRO, its still imbalance esp. GOH. Well thats base on my opinion. Traditional game play is still the best for me.









Impulse

eAthena also does not have a complete renewal branch, so I think most server owners are waiting for that before implementing them on their own servers. Pre-renewal is much more stable right now.


www.gothamro.com - Ragnarok for the Dedicated.

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butteryouup

With the advent of 3rd classes, WoE has become a "whoever-uses-their-skills-first-wins" kind of thing. :/

PlatinumRO

WOE with 3rd classes is pretty broken.

MVPing is a joke, when you can take down any MVP solo, or with only a 2 person team.  But I think that's usually because most servers run the 3rd classes on a non Renewal mechanic using server.

That being said, I actually like the sprites for most classes. :3
PlatinumRO.net!  A brand new 30x, 50x, 50x server!

GoCloud

Personally, I like the third classes.

Sure, there are a bunch of...issues that they have with. Heck, they even made RO free which just says something is wrong with the third classes. Okay...I guess I'm starting with the negatives. For one, some of the third classes don't really look that good. For example...Rune Knight. Eh...what are they supposed to be, walking glow sticks? Sorry but I just really dislike the design for Rune Knights. Second, their skills. It's like wtf, they've been given uber strong abilities that can kill within an instant. No point to it anymore for parties. Eh...maybe just to talk to others while killing. Either way, bad way to go. Third...made Transcendent classes USELESS. Like, people just jump from second class to third class without reborn. It's kinda sad. Plus, there's also the skills for Warlock. Holy crap....takes out the person's screen with a few spells. No more having to actually aim and click, no..just press the hot key and BAM, spell is unleashed.

Now...for the positives. I like some, or most of their clothes. Some I could do with remodeling it, but eh...it seems fine. Then there's Arch Bishop. I am glad that they actually have spells to attack something other than Undead...and something a whole lot more useful than Holy Light. Seriously...Holy Light is useless. I'm also pretty glad that Wanderer/Minstrel actually has spells that give buffs without having to be within the same 3x3 cell area or w/e it was to be within the buff...but then it sorta makes their songs pointless. Also glad that they have an attack ability with their bow this time.

Err.....I guess that's all for the positives. I'm leaning more towards the negatives, but I still like the third classes. If they were tweaked...a lot, excluding Arch Bishop cause Arch Bishop kinda deserves their spells, then it would be fine. Though...I do wish that they also made the MvP's a little stronger so that they could take on this massive sized army...or at least make a MvP that would require like a full party of third classes...<.<

Gankz

I like em. Most private servers can't get them right at all because well there are many different versions of renewal for each official, so it's a bit hard to get concrete information on how renewal specifically works. Though looking at iRO for example I feel like they can be a lot of fun. I have a Geneticist on iRO and so far I'm really enjoying the experience of playing it. Yes they are broken. Yes they change the game in ridiculous ways...but when it comes down to it, it's just about having fun, y'know.



Vincentfx3

#16
I like 3rd classes too. Before the 3rd classes were implemented, there's only 4 classes that can kill in PVP/GVG which are the champion, whitesmith, creator and assassin cross. You can add the 2 mage classes on the list depending on how many GTB cards are on your server or how the server you're playing on handles the GTB card. The rest of the class just can't kill any "hurry potter" player lol. You know those who spam recovery items or uses berries a lot.

Trans server are just boring, you'll see the same stuff over and over again. Creator acid bombing just about anything and everyone, assassin cross 1 hitting everthing wth edp, link and sonic blow, whitemsith spamming cart termination and champion asura, berry or anything to replenish his hp/sp then asura again. Wow, seriously boring. Everthing a lord knight can do, an assassin cross can do better. From killing to emp breaking.

Playing Lord Knights and sniper or any other classes makes you feel useless because you can't kill anything and all paladin can do is just be a meat shield with devotion. Stalkers are just strippers, even if you strip all their equips, you still can't kill them even if you spam bowling bash as long as they know what they're doing. A high priest with assumptio is just too much for a stalker to kill.

As you can see, imbalances are always there in Ragnarok with or without 3rd class. But with 3rd class, it's more fun because every class can actually win. There's more skill to use that adds more strategy to the game like shadow form, white imprisonment, reverbration, gx poisons, death bound, windmill, runes, cursed circle, diamond dust, etc...

Though I would agree that renewal Spiral Pierce is just crazy but I have read on iRO forum that it will be nerf in the future.
Overall I like 3rd jobs but I only played them on private servers with pre-renewal mechanics. I like some renewal changes too except the spiral pierce one.

That said, I prefer servers with 3rd Jobs with pre-renewal spiral pierce like ValhallaRO.
Looking for a high rate server with official 3rd job level cap (150/50) and no donation items? Try ValhallaRO

http://valhallaro.webs.com/serverinformation.htm

nightshade

from my view renewal just ruined the way ro was played >.< i never liked renewal & never will.

Ace

3rd jobs are cool only if the developers can balanced it in your server. Because for me, the default skills of the 3rd job class is waaaaaaay to imbalanced. 1 skill can kill a guild!  :o

But their sprites are cool!

Kaezar

It's been a year since this topic and I was just wondering as to how the general sentiment towards third jobs/renewal has changed. (Not making a new topic so we can compare.) Even iRO made significant balance changes, now we have rAthena, new homunculi, mounts, etc. have popped up.

What are your thoughts on the matter? How are third jobs, pre-renewal, post-renewal, with rAthena, with 3ceam or whatever else? Which classes are still imba, with respect to MvP or WoE? Which classes shouldn't be bothered to be levelled to third job at all?

PuffRO

for me i think 3rd jobs are getting better and most people i bet will be trying something new :)

fluidin

Every self-respecting player that wants to optimize his/her 3rd job experience definitely should trans first. No argument there.


But yeah a whole lot has changed. The really pre-balance imbalanced classes have been nerfed afaik, which are RK, RG and Sura. Post balance iRO seems to have a "better" WoE environment from what I've heard, but from what I've seen of all the uploaded WoE videos, post-re woe will never require as much thought or skill as pre-re.

What has changed is that classes have less defined roles nowadays, which I have said in the past is what RO should not proceed towards. This is the WoW syndrome where everyone feels burst/dps classes are overpowered when compared to support/healing classes, etc, but in actuality is not the case in a full fledged group PvP scenario.

In RE it feels like every class has an AoE skill, can PvM and more or less MvP nowadays. WoE is a whole lot of people running around randomly and almost everyone is able to kill/tank to a certain extent. Instead of "class imbalance" it has become "gear imbalance".

This is in sharp contrast to pre-re WoE, where everyone has really defined roles and proper positioning is required to come out on top.
Quote from: Jeon on Jun 04, 2009, 12:02 PM
XileRo is the only HR I know that has a reasonable PvP system. I did watch the RWC like you said, all I see is people spamming the room like every other gang fight there is in RO.

phranxis

they should increase extended classe's hp
not on par at some moments 

PuffRO

there is already a 2nd job for the extended class, i think it can on par with 3rd classes as of now

Triper

No there isn't. Gunslinger is still missing them[even if already planned] and they didn't "update"[I call the updates that they made - stupid and useless nerfs] extended classes for the taekwon branch to be on par with 3rd classes.

Soul linker can't level with Esma now, it's pure junk and so they don't have any other way then just go agi/crit builds -.-
Support Soul linker? What is that when lots of skills depend on lv to work and being a 99 means you're insta screwed...

Star Gladiator isn't anymore the king of PVM/MVPs and breaking emps/cades is lame now with one.

Taekwon Ranked is pure junk now, the rank for +hp and the non-stop spam of skills means 0 now.

Kaezar

That just reinforces my belief that from the very start, Gravity considered extended classes novelty characters. Oh well. Are the main third classes balanced now, though (after the post-renewal major balances)? Or is a certain class still shining too brightly?