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Offline DeAmascus

Hiring of GM's
« on: Nov 05, 2008, 08:33 AM »
Before I became an admin on my server, I realized that a lot of places were looking for people that can already GM. I don't find this fair for a few reasons.

1.) Experience:  What's the point of anyone that hasn't been a GM to apply yet, if the only people that would get "hired" are the ones that have experience. You can't just automatically know everything that a GM needs to know. A lot of it is personal experience FROM GM'ing, so if someone who never GM'ed before applies and gets denied and never HAS the chance to be a GM, it...makes it pointless.

2.) Attitude:  There are applications I've personally read that were GREAT, and the people knew a LOT even if they DIDN'T GM but I hate one thing, and one thing only. When a person goes to describe themselves saying they're nice, when clearly in game you see that they are rude to other players that..say aren't in their "guild" or on their "buddy" list.  How the HELL do they expect us to hire them, KNOWING that we're watching them, and being rude still to other people.

So you have a problem with a person, take it outside of the game [msn/aim/etc.] Or better yet...DON'T TALK TO THEM. It's THAT simple. I just want to bash peoples' heads sometimes when they just don't leave the subject alone even AFTER you ask them, and then when they get punished for it, they call you either corrupt [for doing your job] or they don't even know "why" they got punished. -__-;;

3.) Server:  It's supposed to be about the PLAYERS and having FUN. So why the HELL are there so many problems and so much drama going on. Big deal, a person called you a damn name...guess what? YOU'LL NEVER SEE THEM IN YOUR LIFE. Or it's a 90% chance you never will. What's the probability of you running into someone you meet on RO in real life, and actually knowing it's them. Seriously, it's the INTERNET. It's NOT SERIOUS. Get over it. I can't believe how someone would rub it in the others' face that, say they got the position another person wanted. What...the...hell. For all you know, it could be a really good friend of yours just acting in a different way over the net, YOU don't know that. =p


Those are just a few little issues I have. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe there are others that see it my way. Feel Free to discuss. =] 
~Proud Leader of Colorz~



HellRose

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Offline Poki

Re: Hiring of GM's
« Reply #1 on: Nov 05, 2008, 10:25 AM »
Before I became an admin on my server, I realized that a lot of places were looking for people that can already GM. I don't find this fair for a few reasons.

1.) Experience:  What's the point of anyone that hasn't been a GM to apply yet, if the only people that would get "hired" are the ones that have experience. You can't just automatically know everything that a GM needs to know. A lot of it is personal experience FROM GM'ing, so if someone who never GM'ed before applies and gets denied and never HAS the chance to be a GM, it...makes it pointless.

2.) Attitude:  There are applications I've personally read that were GREAT, and the people knew a LOT even if they DIDN'T GM but I hate one thing, and one thing only. When a person goes to describe themselves saying they're nice, when clearly in game you see that they are rude to other players that..say aren't in their "guild" or on their "buddy" list.  How the HELL do they expect us to hire them, KNOWING that we're watching them, and being rude still to other people.

So you have a problem with a person, take it outside of the game [msn/aim/etc.] Or better yet...DON'T TALK TO THEM. It's THAT simple. I just want to bash peoples' heads sometimes when they just don't leave the subject alone even AFTER you ask them, and then when they get punished for it, they call you either corrupt [for doing your job] or they don't even know "why" they got punished. -__-;;

3.) Server:  It's supposed to be about the PLAYERS and having FUN. So why the HELL are there so many problems and so much drama going on. Big deal, a person called you a damn name...guess what? YOU'LL NEVER SEE THEM IN YOUR LIFE. Or it's a 90% chance you never will. What's the probability of you running into someone you meet on RO in real life, and actually knowing it's them. Seriously, it's the INTERNET. It's NOT SERIOUS. Get over it. I can't believe how someone would rub it in the others' face that, say they got the position another person wanted. What...the...hell. For all you know, it could be a really good friend of yours just acting in a different way over the net, YOU don't know that. =p


Those are just a few little issues I have. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe there are others that see it my way. Feel Free to discuss. =] 

For experience, you could always lie if you really want to be a GM that bad.  You can also try to talk to the employer in person on MSN, it usually gives you a better chance in getting the position and in explaining yourself as a wonderful person capable of doing many things that will support the server in many ways!

@Attitude:  Look at the way the present themselves at you.  See if you can spot and sentences that could lead to trouble when they talk or the way the talk.  You want to find someone who is normally presenting themselves exceptionally well and not those who aren't going to care how they seem to talk.  You can also find out roughly how old they are just by the way they act. The older they are, the wiser and better. (But not too old, if it goes to that point, I dee kay.srsly.)  When you know how old they are or how they present themselves, you'll understand whether they are serious and truthful that they are gentle, or if their immature and lying to you (and if they are professional or unprofessional at being a GM)

@Server: Unprofessional. They are just darn unprofessional.  They don't know what they're working for in other words and therefore, don't hire them, and at the very least, explain why.

(Maybe I shouldn't post this at all, I'm way too tired to know what the heck am I saying :/ )

Offline Head Monocle of DOOM

Re: Hiring of GM's
« Reply #2 on: Nov 05, 2008, 10:35 AM »
All very valid thoughts though:

1. Larger/Older servers that need to expand want GM's that know what they're doing for reputation purposes. One bad GM can ruin the whole server.

2. That is why many servers hold trial Periods for their new hires to watch how they act.

3. We're all human and regardless of what we're doing we hall the baggage that comes with it.
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Offline Aris

Re: Hiring of GM's
« Reply #3 on: Nov 05, 2008, 06:42 PM »
i find that people who have never really had any gm experience before, tend to be the better ones. at least from my experience... i mean you should always have a trial procedure. for example: make them a mod on the forums or something along those lines to test them.

Offline Mewi

Re: Hiring of GM's
« Reply #4 on: Nov 07, 2008, 12:02 AM »
No offense but that excuse "it's just the internet" has had people commit suicide over due to people cyber bullying.  So yes, it does matter.  The crime dog says so, and multiple TV ads state such things, they are there for a reason you know?  The fact that you should consider is that not everyone feels the same way about personal attacks, some people are like w/e while others are like "WTF IDIOT" and others take it to the moderators... You have to take it VERY seriously, because it is a serious issue.


Becoming a GM means you sacrifice a part of your soul forever, be prepared.

Offline Guest

Re: Hiring of GM's
« Reply #5 on: Nov 07, 2008, 01:17 AM »
No offense but that excuse "it's just the internet" has had people commit suicide over due to people cyber bullying.  So yes, it does matter.  The crime dog says so, and multiple TV ads state such things, they are there for a reason you know?  The fact that you should consider is that not everyone feels the same way about personal attacks, some people are like w/e while others are like "WTF IDIOT" and others take it to the moderators... You have to take it VERY seriously, because it is a serious issue.
Couldn't be more true,

Besides, lots and lots of people do kill them selves over cyber bullying, just people aren't mature enough to see that its whats happening, and they go on believing that they did nothing wrong.

Offline Scars

Re: Hiring of GM's
« Reply #6 on: Nov 07, 2008, 01:46 PM »
Internet is really a serious issue, the owner of Facebook is 23 years old and is a billionaire because of it, where else can you do that?

GM is an unpaid job that is demanded by many, though 90% of the people that wants to be GM, wants it for the fame and popularity that it brings. To me personally the best GMs are people who know me well, know how I work, and share my vision for the server. Most importantly some one who can build a friendship with me.

Weather they been GM or not previously doesn't count for s*** with me, for I am myself, not their previous admins.


This is a convo I had quite recently:

Hi?
hello sir
i saw ur post
u finding gms right?
sure I am always open for new talents
hmm
i am here for ur help
i am a good 1 yr exp event gm and 6months of head gm exp
i am active
i am helpfull kind and friendly
sure that's what they all say
tell me something different

i was a gm in shockwavero , nekofuryro , theoryro , static ro
resume anywhere?
nop
i talk to ppl personaly
no resume
so sir wht do u think
lol
what I think?
I am not interested, I think you have no talent whatsoever
and you will create nothing but trouble for me
that's what I think
discussion over.


I hate when they add me on MSN just for the purpose of applying..

asdfqwerty123

  • Guest
Re: Hiring of GM's
« Reply #7 on: Nov 07, 2008, 03:13 PM »
The best way to tell if someone is worth hiring is to put them through an internship process where they have to help players and do homework weekly reporting everything they did and what hours they were doing their job.  Don't give them any powers or benefits, and make them send in an application with a lot of information.  It doesn't matter if you'll use all the information, the point is making them fill it out (a little work and thought put into it) so that they are not wasting your time in the first place.  You need to make sure staff are clear on their objectives and missions, keep that information easily available.  Require them to give up regular player activities like WoE and PvP and ETC.  If you are a staff member who has time to play as a normal player, you're not doing your job correctly.  Keep in contact with your staff, unfortunately this is something I personally have a lot of trouble with, but it is healthy to have regular meetings.
« Last Edit: Nov 07, 2008, 03:16 PM by Zairik »

Offline Guest

Re: Hiring of GM's
« Reply #8 on: Nov 07, 2008, 06:42 PM »
The best way to tell if someone is worth hiring is to put them through an internship process where they have to help players and do homework weekly reporting everything they did and what hours they were doing their job.  Don't give them any powers or benefits, and make them send in an application with a lot of information.  It doesn't matter if you'll use all the information, the point is making them fill it out (a little work and thought put into it) so that they are not wasting your time in the first place.  You need to make sure staff are clear on their objectives and missions, keep that information easily available.  Require them to give up regular player activities like WoE and PvP and ETC.  If you are a staff member who has time to play as a normal player, you're not doing your job correctly.  Keep in contact with your staff, unfortunately this is something I personally have a lot of trouble with, but it is healthy to have regular meetings.

i agree with this one, it seems to be the most humane way of testing, and telling people that they can't handle being a GM, or that they just aren't good at it.

Offline Head Monocle of DOOM

Re: Hiring of GM's
« Reply #9 on: Nov 08, 2008, 01:17 AM »
I like Zairik's idea.
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Offline Anti-Static Foam Cleaner

Re: Hiring of GM's
« Reply #10 on: Nov 08, 2008, 02:17 PM »
No offense but that excuse "it's just the internet" has had people commit suicide over due to people cyber bullying.  So yes, it does matter.

People who kill themselves over what someone wrote about them on the Internet were not worth the carbon they were using by simply existing.

@Scars: I'd stop talking to him based on his grammar alone.

Offline laoganma

Re: Hiring of GM's
« Reply #11 on: Nov 09, 2008, 04:21 PM »
@1st post

i think its better if you pick GMs yourself not because they are applying for it. spend time in the server (as a normal player), observe and see who is genuinely a nice person, smart, mature and trustworthy.
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omg Lao, your posts are awesome, ignore those internet bullies.

Offline Sephy

Re: Hiring of GM's
« Reply #12 on: Nov 10, 2008, 09:11 AM »
dsdf
« Last Edit: Oct 09, 2010, 10:05 PM by Sephy »

asdfqwerty123

  • Guest
Re: Hiring of GM's
« Reply #13 on: Nov 10, 2008, 12:36 PM »
mature

Related to maturity, I would set a minimum age requirement.  It's just a fact that most young kids will eventually lose their temper or do stupid things or deal with social situations badly because they don't have any age on them.  I recommend a minimum age requirement of 16.

You'll save yourself a lot of time and headache.
« Last Edit: Nov 10, 2008, 12:38 PM by Zairik »

Offline Orange

Re: Hiring of GM's
« Reply #14 on: Nov 22, 2008, 03:11 PM »
mature

Related to maturity, I would set a minimum age requirement.  It's just a fact that most young kids will eventually lose their temper or do stupid things or deal with social situations badly because they don't have any age on them.  I recommend a minimum age requirement of 16.

You'll save yourself a lot of time and headache.

D: Age should not be a factor in my opinion, most of the greatest GM's i have seen have been quite young and it sometimes mean they have more spare time to kill on the server :D
If i was to pick a GM, it would be someone who does not swear and tells the truth in there application, sure everyone sends in an application saying that they are nice but they rarely are. I would watch them and find the people that truly are nice.

Scars, i would of blocked the person as soon as he said i saw ur post... Who tries to become a GM and talks like that :D
:3

asdfqwerty123

  • Guest
Re: Hiring of GM's
« Reply #15 on: Dec 14, 2008, 03:20 PM »
You don't realize how much age does play a part in maturity until you do become older.  We did have a GM at the age of 15, almost 16, and that's fine.  However, I would immediately reject an application from some 9 year old, I don't care how mature they think they are.  A minimum age requirement, of any sort, should be stated.  Otherwise you'll get a bunch of power abusing 9 year old GM's running a muck on your server.

Offline Guest

Re: Hiring of GM's
« Reply #16 on: Dec 14, 2008, 03:46 PM »
=P but for some, its easy to act mature,
i like acting the way i do here because i find it fun =3

but if the need does come up, I can at least act mature for a certain occasion that may need me to, so i don't think its exactly about age
i mean its clear that anyone under the age of 10 isn't going to be pretty mature, but i mean sometimes an 11 year old can act more mature then a 25 year old.


oh and just as a funny example, i was once on a server where the entirety of the 18+ aged players where about as mature as 5 year old's XD

Offline DeAmascus

Re: Hiring of GM's
« Reply #17 on: Dec 14, 2008, 07:43 PM »
Honestly, it all depends on the people themselves. I like to just watch them around, or "stalk" as I would prefer it. If anyone has a problem with it, too bad..they'll live. I don't usually come up to the first person I "personally" know and then Hire them just because I know them. I look at others as well. Give it a week or so before picking my GM's, then announcing them afterwards. Though, you still have to pay attention to them, or at least have someone else watch them. /ok 
~Proud Leader of Colorz~



HellRose

asdfqwerty123

  • Guest
Re: Hiring of GM's
« Reply #18 on: Dec 23, 2008, 02:00 PM »
Please note:
We have high standards, so what works for you and your server may not work for us and our server.  Where your standards are set is something only you can decide and for your own reasons.

The first step is always to gather as much information as possible, and certainly basic information (name, gender, age, location, MSN, e-mail, language, experience, reasons for applying).  It has never been our experience that younger GM's have ever been able to maintain our standards for a level of maturity on a regular basis.  An older person can act immature, but a younger person can't maintain level of maturity we require on a constant basis.  Kids are kids, if you hire kids and get immature GM's, it's your own fault.  Same goes for hiring people you haven't seen working out an internship process to be tested.  You get what you work for, and we work hard.

Don't take my statements personal because they are not directed at any specific person and what works for us my not be your style or choice, and you're entitled to your own opinion either way.

Offline Hanyuu

Re: Hiring of GM's
« Reply #19 on: Dec 31, 2008, 12:24 PM »
Everyone has to get their start somewhere. But most of the time, they're "event gms" with little to no knowledge of how things work. Other than @item.

Age to me doesn't really apply, the best server I was ever on was run by a parternship of a 13 year old admin an his 16 year old cousin who turned out to be much more reliable than 18+ year olds who were more corruptable. The server reached a population of around 200 before a WoE bug killed the server. Trib (the 13 year old) was extremely mature for his age in public chat, but in guild chat on his secret legit, he was just like any other player on the server. Except that he sucked horribly in WoE.

Larger servers like Zairik's doesn't have the leyway that smaller ones have. Him and his players have higher expectations so he can't take chances or screw up with a bad GM, unlike most other pservers.
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I cannot quench your thirst
Because no such truth exists that you are in anticipation for.

But I still want to quench your thirst.
Because I am the one the that put you into the desert.

Offline Poki

Re: Hiring of GM's
« Reply #20 on: Dec 31, 2008, 12:53 PM »
I dislike young players as GMs.  I do admit that some appear more mature than others, but most of the time I find it hard to talk to someone when they can't understand, barely have experience and knowledge in dealing with certain situations, and are not capable of composing a good résumé due to their age.

Better yet,  I don't want hinder their sleeping schedule or their school life by their role as a GM.  They'll probably do some sort of excuse or have barely any knowledge in doing anything else to help the server aside from being an event/bot hunter GM.
However, if I were to be uncaring for them, I must say, they do have a lot of time compared to older GMs.

As to hiring GMs,  I wouldn't normally hire a player from my server to take on the roll of a GM.  I would only hire them if they're willing to contribute and forget their legit.  If not, then there's no chance of anyone being a GM, it's too risky if I won't be there to monitor their actions.

I'd hire GMs with a strong bold attitude that implies to player that they mean business but still nice and helpful since they don't mind helping. 

Basically, my requirements for a professional GM team would be this:

Strong bold attitude that shows they are not bias.
Does not have a legit character in the server.
Is willing and has a good goal for the server due to personal achievements similar to mine.
Is mature and experienced enough to handle many situations in the server.

Has a skill that is needed to improve the server.
Active in their role or job and won't go MIA.
They must enjoy their jobs, or else, I'd question them why they're here to even begin with.
Some other things that I'm probably missing but don't care about right now.


Age does not matter, especially if I don't know them well enough since I could tell everyone here that I'm 6. Because of that, I just look at how they talk to me and how well they can handle their powers and attitude toward the players.

Offline Hanyuu

Re: Hiring of GM's
« Reply #21 on: Dec 31, 2008, 09:39 PM »
I like Poki's job describtion of what he looks for in a GM. It lists specifics on what qualitys a good one should have. Althrough I somewhat disagree on the no legit part, mainly because if a change is made involving WoE/PvP, one of the first things players usually shout is that the GMs don't play the server to know it. =\
I cannot quench your thirst
Because even if you yearn for the truth, you refuse to believe in it.

I cannot quench your thirst
Because no such truth exists that you are in anticipation for.

But I still want to quench your thirst.
Because I am the one the that put you into the desert.

Offline Poki

Re: Hiring of GM's
« Reply #22 on: Dec 31, 2008, 10:58 PM »
Yeah, I can see what you mean by that Hanyuu.  Though, couldn't that easily be solved by having certain people (including myself if I want to) just monitor WoE as well as PvP every so often?  Plus, suggestions could be made on the forums.

I do suppose that having a person know the server as a GM is helpful, but I might as well be that person and let GMs stay long enough to know what is happening and get use to the server.  That's where the GM must have dedication.  If they aren't willing to understand and be active enough to get along with the server or just know what the server's community and challenges are like, then I guess the person isn't cut out to be a GM on the server, right? Well... at least on my dream server, haha!

Whatever the case, there's a lot of reason and opinions about this legit character thing.  I think I'm just going to back away on it.  There's plenty of debates done on it already and they're all just opinions being said over and over again, haha.

Offline Triper

Re: Hiring of GM's
« Reply #23 on: May 02, 2010, 05:44 PM »

Offline Yukino

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Re: Hiring of GM's
« Reply #24 on: May 02, 2010, 05:45 PM »
Asaka, this is a discussion thread, not an application thread.

It is hard to find good GMs these days. I believe young GMs are fine (I would say at least grade 7 or up). People can lie easily in their applications which makes it more difficult for a server to progress.
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Offline revan

Re: Hiring of GM's
« Reply #25 on: May 05, 2010, 05:44 AM »
The thread's two years old. Let it die :(
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Offline keben

Re: Hiring of GM's
« Reply #26 on: Apr 05, 2013, 09:58 PM »
there's no right age. just as the other said, it's all about the attitude and of course the capability of the person.