GM Compensation?

[morishka]

Hi there. Sorry, I don't know if this is the right place to be posting... I'm currently GMing Enchanted RO, which is a free server run by volunteers. We've had a suggestion by one of the GM Team that as GMs we should be getting compensation for the time we spend working on the game instead of playing. Thoughts included a "GM Point System", where one hour of programming, scripting, meetings, running events, PR, etc would equal one GM Point, and we could "buy" things for our legit characters, like free resets, experience, name changes etc depending on the cost we set for each.

What do other servers do? I'm really not comfortable with GMs getting in-game compensation for their volunteer time (besides the obvious compensation like knowing the ins and outs of the quests and events you plan, being the ultimate authority on the direction the server is going, etc). But maybe I'm totally off in my thinking. I knew that when I took on the position of Event GM that I wouldn't get to play in events, nor have as much time to play. But I considered it worth it because I could then plan the happenin's on the server.

Any thoughts???

[Prodinterios]

Well You Volunteered for it so its not the server bosses fault for not giving you any compensation because he didnt force you to become a GM am I right?

So why ask for a compensation when you wanna help and isnt the GM Character already enough?

Well in most servers the admins would give the GMs
1Headgear of Choice or 1 Special Donates

[yC]

think about the player reaction, they might smell corruption easily.  Players are extremely sensitive to these things.  It depend on what you can buy also ...

[Pandora]

Maybe you should suggest that the idea be run by your players. There's nothing like an open discussion ^_^ Perhaps they'll agree that their gm's work should be rewarded with some items. If you're honest it has less chance of being labeled "corruption".

[Pow]

Well I don't know about this, considering you volunteered to take that position so you shouldn't really be rewarded.

However, involving players into an open discussion into the matter would probably be your best bet. I wouldn't expect it to go your way though unfortunately. Maybe you could (I'm not sure how your server works with levels and stuff) be promoted after a certain amount of "points" - but make it so you could only "get" 1 point every week or something, to avoid people just doing a whole day worth of whatever it requires and then get promoted and just sit around doin' nothing.

[ArcAngelArtemis]

Well in most servers the admins would give the GMs
1Headgear of Choice or 1 Special Donates

your kidding right? Most servers dont do that. As someone else said, there would be posts about corruption, on the forums (if they had one). Seriously, no offense to anyone out there, but the servers who offer free items to the GM chars, cant Administrate the server. At least when they are LOOKING for GMs. I can see what you mean though, you cant play in events, you cant really level, etc. But you knew what you were getting in to I suppose.

[bentheexo]

Well in most servers the admins would give the GMs
1Headgear of Choice or 1 Special Donates

your kidding right? Most servers dont do that. As someone else said, there would be posts about corruption, on the forums (if they had one). Seriously, no offense to anyone out there, but the servers who offer free items to the GM chars, cant Administrate the server. At least when they are LOOKING for GMs. I can see what you mean though, you cant play in events, you cant really level, etc. But you knew what you were getting in to I suppose.

agreed. the only compensation that my gms get is the ability to govern and guide the ppl in the right direction. my gms cant drop, trade, storage, @item, #item, or @item2, #item2. its not that i dont trust ppl to tell me whats going on i just dont feel that a gm should do those things. now you think that what ive done might be harsh but conside the fact that i have created my gms by only giving one char on their account powers how you might ask well ill post it up in here i suppose.

//////////////////////////////////////////////////
//Single Char GM's for Multiply Map/Char Servers//
//made by BenTheExo            //
//Version 1.0               //
//////////////////////////////////////////////////

prontera.gat,0,0,0   script   OnPCLoginEvent   -1,{
//
//This one gives powers
//
if(getcharid(0)==charid#) atcommand "@adjgmlvl gmlvl charname";

close;
}

prontera.gat,0,0,0   script   OnPCLogoutEvent   -1,{
//
//this one takes away powers
//dont forget to make this one as well
//
if(getcharid(0)==charid#) atcommand "@adjgmlvl 0 charname";

close;
}

[ArcAngelArtemis]

Well in most servers the admins would give the GMs
1Headgear of Choice or 1 Special Donates

your kidding right? Most servers dont do that. As someone else said, there would be posts about corruption, on the forums (if they had one). Seriously, no offense to anyone out there, but the servers who offer free items to the GM chars, cant Administrate the server. At least when they are LOOKING for GMs. I can see what you mean though, you cant play in events, you cant really level, etc. But you knew what you were getting in to I suppose.

agreed. the only compensation that my gms get is the ability to govern and guide the ppl in the right direction. my gms cant drop, trade, storage, @item, #item, or @item2, #item2. its not that i dont trust ppl to tell me whats going on i just dont feel that a gm should do those things. now you think that what ive done might be harsh but conside the fact that i have created my gms by only giving one char on their account powers how you might ask well ill post it up in here i suppose.

//////////////////////////////////////////////////
//Single Char GM's for Multiply Map/Char Servers//
//made by BenTheExo            //
//Version 1.0               //
//////////////////////////////////////////////////

prontera.gat,0,0,0   script   OnPCLoginEvent   -1,{
//
//This one gives powers
//
if(getcharid(0)==charid#) atcommand "@adjgmlvl gmlvl charname";

close;
}

prontera.gat,0,0,0   script   OnPCLogoutEvent   -1,{
//
//this one takes away powers
//dont forget to make this one as well
//
if(getcharid(0)==charid#) atcommand "@adjgmlvl 0 charname";

close;
}

Restricting gm powers is a good idea sometimes, but there are other times where the GM's think they feel like criminals, or something, and dont like the fact that they feel untrustworthy. But when the server is huge, and there are pages of logs you look at when you get the chance, I can see how the restriction can come in handy. Im sure its possible to miss a few @items, here and there, or @skills, and whatnot.

[NikitaDarkstar]

I'm a player support GM, I voulenteered for it so I don't expect any compensation. In fact I don't really think it's a good idea to give GM's stuff just cause they're GM's, if they voulenteered they don't really need it, don't like it? Well there's usually 168165816816816 other pepole thats moer than willing to fill that position, some of them might even be qualified.

AS for restricting powers, powers mean trust, and trust is something you earn, I don't mind not beeing able to drop items, stoer items etc., Why should I? I don't need them for the task I do, the only midly annoying thing is I can't give out items for events, but thats about it, and I do see the danger in giving a newly appointed GM trade powers to go with @item (we have that to be able to look up the customs in a speedy way.. but it's jsut really a fancy library+wardrobe when you can't trade or drop them ).

Basiclly my opinion is, give the GM the powers they need to do their job, nothing more, nothing less. Then if the person earns your trust you might consider giving more (if needed).

But well all in all, it's a free server run by voulenteers, voulenteers generally shouldn't be compensated in my opnion, especially not with ingame stuff, and most defently not with something that gives them the upper hand over regular players. You're a GM, you help run the server, you get all the pro's and con's that go with it, if you think the con's outweigh the pro's resign your position.

[ArcAngelArtemis]

One thing that ticks me off though, is when they do get some compensation. I mean its alright if its a little something, but I mean when they do it behind the players backs. Whats up with that? I mean what could they be getting thats so important that we should know about? Thats when people start talking about corruption

[Transcend]

You choose to be a gm,for no compensation.So why would you have the right to get items?
Nope that s unfair,i used to be in a server where GM had the right to take 20EDP bottles each week.
Ok,20poison bottle each week on a 3x, yeha that s cool,i wanna be gm too

[Mieu]

There should never be any reward for GMship other than the satisfaction you derive for helping create, support, and nurture a server.

Even if you were to poll or ask the current players for their approval, new or prospective members might not understand, and since first impression is key well, server population growth may suffer.

[BRabbit]

Some servers give GMs some cash $$$ for doing their job. So far I've seen EuphRO and UnityRO announce that they do this.

EUPHRO DONATION PAGE

Anything above the monthly operating expenses will be used to compensate gamemasters based on how much work they perform and the complexity of the work. Those do not agree with this do not need to donate, but we assure you, it's fair.

UNITYRO DONATION PAGE

Fundings above the defined threshold may be used to compensate the server administrators for their time and work spent on maintaining the servers. Please keep this in mind before you decide to donate.

There's probably other servers that do it too, but I have forgotten, never seen them or they don't announce it.

[ArcAngelArtemis]

Actually cash I would approve of, as long as that server didn have donations. You cant use the cash for ro, there fore you arent messing up the economy or anything, and you are doing a JOB, if they WANT to pay you, thats cool, if not thats alright, because you werent in it for the money now where you?

[NikitaDarkstar]

Only reason EuphRO and Unity announces that they do it is because the GM's of each server got caught doing it the first time (Unity is run by ZellKFF who orignally was on EuphRO).. but I don't think any server would announce it if they didn't "have to"..

Besides I don't think it's fair to use the players money that way either, save it for a month when there aren't much donations (like you know, december and xmas), invest it in server upgrades or whatever, but I don't really think it's ok to use donation money to compenaste GM's, if you want to compensate them do it out of your own pocket.

[Flip]

People are generally against this; when money starts going into priv RO servers, it starts suspicion really.

So if anything, it really IS up to the owner. As long as he/she explains and illustrates the the donation money IS going to the server one way or another, then everything works out.

[PerfectDeath]

If you are a good GM the players will compensate you by being nice to you. =D

If you are a bad GM, they will make your job living hell! D=<

[SakuraX]

let us be reminded, GM was officially HIRED in real life to keep the game in company; therefore, it would be hard for private servers (especially volunteered forces) to have a "clean" community

[Mewi]

Having such a system would be the first step towards corruption.   But why you say?  Firstly the more the GM needs something on their 'legit' the more they will try to make up things to do.  This is clearly a conflict of interest seeing as how GMs are there only to receive the satisfaction of a well ran server.

As for their 'legit' chars,  the moment there is a GM interaction with such chars, is the moment the server can be defined as corrupt.  This will also bring up a huge issue in the server's community.  Rumors will be intensified beyond what would be normal.  The more powerful the GMs 'legit' char, the more the community suspects something is up.  You can go out of your way and try to make all information available to the public, but the end result will be the same ( Corruption ).

The only interest of a GM should be is to help players and to have a well ran server with a wonderful community.

I would however not be against some form of paycheck if the GM is doing their job as full or part time as GMs do on other servers.  But either way corruption can come from anywhere,  its nearly impossible to avoid.  But easy to stop if you are an admin.

[Omg Onoes]

why should you expect any compensation on top of the powers you already received? i mean, most likely it's not like they're begging you to gm their server, you probably wanted to be one, and i'm sure most of you have heard that: power comes with responsibility, so if you want to keep the power, then keep up with the responsibility as a gm too, because if not, plenty of other people will gladly take over your spot.

[Guest]

hmmmm GM compensation hmmm
isn't helping the ppl enough of a reward

but really i think its a bad idea giving ppl power then on top of that giving them a reward it just seems to scream accusations of corruption

[asdfqwerty123]

Consider this:
1 - Should the money go to benefit the server and its players through supporting the server with hosting and advertising?
2 - Should the money go to a volunteer GM who already gets rewarded with items, status, and power in-game?

I think it's pretty obvious.  Servers should be more concerned about keeping players flowing in rather than paying volunteer staff, which itself comes along with a lot of headache and concerns of corruption.  The misappropriation of funds is enough to kill a server.

Bad bad bad idea.

[Ambrose Merle]

Moderators work under one of two conditions. Pay, or free. Your mods signed up for free, so they work for free. Pay only comes with cash, giving their legits items just in turn messes thigns up in game. I recommend sticking with the traditional methods of moderating. Besides, if you lose a GM, it's FULLY possible to get a brand new one within a week. Believe me. I had to fire 5 and got 10!!

[Pandora]

2 - Should the money go to a volunteer GM who already gets rewarded with items, status, and power in-game?

Your GM gets items?! I don't think they should.. As for "status and power", Powertrip GM tend to drive players away XD

All donation should obviously go to the server fist and foremost. Leftovers is a grey zone I guess.

[Inanna]

I myself would NOT be comfortable with getting compensation in game, or out of it, but that's because I offered my help for free. Because I wanted to help my server and because I love the people on it. That's just me...

It also throws off the natural balance of the game, and screws with the economy. :/ On top of that, it's not really fair to the regular users.

I can understand giving a paycheck to a GM, for the work they're doing if there's money left over, or it's coming out of the admins pocket. To a certain extent, I can see how it could work but... honestly, I feel more comfortable knowing the people working on the server are there because they want to be. Not because they're paid to be.

[MrrgleCaek]

uh...actual GMs wouldn't ask for compensation in the first place...they'd do their, y'know, job? o_o
Compensation ruins game mechanics, a handful of players get "under the counter" source of items while the majority don't? Oh well, it's the owners server after all, they're entitled to do whatever they want with it after all...

[Ambrose Merle]

Once again, I'm off today and just dinkin around so I thought I'd plop in my comment. I agree with Inanna (once again), and mrrglecaek as much as I hate to admit it e_O; Moderators that play on a game rarely get payed and there is a reason. Good moderators can be found, and most don't want, nor ask for pay. I was deemed a high quality moderator suprisingly by the staff and many of the players, but I never got payed a thin penny even. I wouldn't feel right taking the money, and although I could use it, I also feel the money could be better used to improve the servers in the first place, like paying for hosting, or launching another branch of it with different stats so as to attract another field of players. Well, Merry Christmas once again and thanks for the opinions, ya'll

[Mewi]

Once again, I'm off today and just dinkin around so I thought I'd plop in my comment. I agree with Inanna (once again), and mrrglecaek as much as I hate to admit it e_O; Moderators that play on a game rarely get payed and there is a reason. Good moderators can be found, and most don't want, nor ask for pay. I was deemed a high quality moderator suprisingly by the staff and many of the players, but I never got payed a thin penny even. I wouldn't feel right taking the money, and although I could use it, I also feel the money could be better used to improve the servers in the first place, like paying for hosting, or launching another branch of it with different stats so as to attract another field of players. Well, Merry Christmas once again and thanks for the opinions, ya'll

Trust me that will change after say the 10th GM job...  Once you spend like 3-5 hours a day dealing with bans, drama and technical support...  The GMing becomes a bit to much to be something that is done for free...   If you are good enough, and you show high signs of professionalism then I do not see a problem with asking for a fee for the hard work done.  This is only in reference to money, not RO items.  RO items as a fee is wrong... absolutely wrong -.- and will ALWAYS lead to corruption.

[Zone]

Really, if that were the case, I could make a new character one day as a legit and completely gear it after testing gears on my gm character, being that I would know exactly what to get, and that I am overly active as a gm.

This system would not work.

[asdfqwerty123]

2 - Should the money go to a volunteer GM who already gets rewarded with items, status, and power in-game?

Your GM gets items?! I don't think they should.. As for "status and power", Powertrip GM tend to drive players away XD

All donation should obviously go to the server fist and foremost. Leftovers is a grey zone I guess.

Our server doesn't allow GM's to participate in the Events so it's quite impossible for them to ever gain Event Prize Tickets or specialized items.  Rarely, a few items are given to those who work the hardest.  "Status and power" come with being a GM, it's not like you can separate them.  If they had no power different than a normal player then what makes them a GM...?  And "power" doesn't mean corrupt, it just means responsibility to the players to do your job effectively with respect.  "Power" isn't a bad word, it's just more often times than not associated with people who would abuse it.  No one talks about how good a GM does their job, only when something bad happens do people talk.

Getting back on subject, servers themselves are typically quite unstable and nearly 70%+ fail within the first week or two anymore.  It's simply not sane to pay unskilled total strangers to play a game, and that's the reality of it.  Don't pay volunteer gamers to play a server that has less than 10,000 people online average.

[Aris]

You should never expect any sort of compensation or "pay" for being a GM... it's voluntary work... >_> I personally do it cause I love hunting down bots and hearing their sad little excuses while trying to make up false proof... that and I love to help Ning lol. (LRO Owner)

[Tears of Blood]

Compensation should not be expected, in my mind. However, if you are the owner of the server and you want to share your profits with your staff, feel free.

Personally, I may just share some of the donation profits with my other GMs, if I ever get any donations. Hahah.

[Guest]

o.o i don't think you should be making ANY profit off your server......

and i think by compensation they mean in game stuff?

[Tears of Blood]

Hey, you provide a service for people. Usually a free service, but there is absolutely nothing wrong with making money off of it, especially if there is little to spend it on that relates to the server.

Take me for example. I host the server on my own using a physical server running out of my closet because the noise generated from it keeps me awake at night. It was just laying around from a past project. It came with enough RAM to have as many players as I want. (So far, anyhow.) I don't pay for my high-speed Internet connection. I have not payed a dime nor a penny for my server as of yet. I also haven't received any donations, but if I were to receieve some, they would first go to things like better RAM for the server so I could have even more players.

Of course with donations, your server takes priority. However, is it really so bad to accept the extra money as long as you tell them that that's what you're gonna' do ahead of time? As I said before, you provide a service. You deserve something for that.

You could argue that you're taking Gravity's money, but in reality, that claim has little merit. Think about it. Those players don't want to give money to gravity, that's one of the biggest reasons for playing Private Servers! Not only that, but these are donations which legally means that you aren't actually receiving money FOR the service, it's a gift. Which is why buying items via donation is so popular, I suppose. A gift for a gift.

And, lastly, the topic said GM Compensation. I figured I was free to discuss all forms of it. Do I think GMs should get in-game items? Absolutely not! The game is meant to be played. There is no reason you should be getting in-game items for anything in my mind. Play the game, that's how it's meant to be.

[Auroraâ„¢]

Basically, no. GMs should not be given compensation for what they do. Everyone who volunteers for the position of a game master should be well aware that there's no prize for doing your job. In all honesty, players could consider it cheating if the GMs got items or zeny just because they are on the staff. Not only is it unfair, but it could easily cause a lot of corruption among the GM teams. That's basically a GM giving themselves items with the permission of the admin. of the server, which is kind of horrible.

As it goes with donation money, and getting money put directly in your pocket for doing work, that could also be considered corruption. If the players are well aware that you or the staff members are profiting off of their donation money, then I guess that's a different story, but I know of plenty of servers that take people's donations without their permission and fills their own pockets up with that money. (That's usually what becomes of servers with unholy priced donations.)

The job of a game master is purely voluntary, and as long as the players aren't forced to pay for accounts (like the original RO), game masters should not be paid for the things they do. If people in staff positions disagree with that, well, I could honestly say that they aren't really there just to help.