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Ragnarok Online => General Discussion => GameMaster Talk => Topic started by: MrrgleCaek on Dec 20, 2007, 07:35 PM

Title: Admins, GMs, etc. playing on a RO server
Post by: MrrgleCaek on Dec 20, 2007, 07:35 PM
I've seen some discussions about the whole, if you may call it, debate on a GM having a legitimate character to PLAY on a RO server. For me personally, I have made a legit account on my server and have played around on my server like any other player on it when I have the free time. I don't see why I would make a RO server, than all of a sudden not to be able to play the server itself due to I would instantly become "corrupt".

Just wondering...why should it be wrong for someone who does server side work on a RO server NOT be entitled to play it after the work they've put in to it? Is it due to the majority of Private RO server owners are unproffessional, immature,tend to tinker with their "legit" chars to be the strongest among the community and so in turn people now have this strong unease seeing a GM or admin playing on the RO server with a non-GM account? Shouldn't it be the GM/admins responsibility to know from playing the game as is, and helping out on the server with their given GM level instead of personal gain?
Bleh...I'd love to hear opinions from other GMs.
Title: Re: Admins, GMs, etc. playing on a RO server
Post by: Pow on Dec 20, 2007, 08:44 PM
I believe that it is fine for a GM / Admin to have a legitimate character / account, as long as everything is kept separate.


-Pow
Title: Re: Admins, GMs, etc. playing on a RO server
Post by: Inanna on Dec 20, 2007, 09:15 PM
I don't really see the debate on it, I mean, why would they host a game that they can't, themselves, enjoy?

Keeping things seperate is a good thing, plus, for me I wonder why would you take and make your own items? That takes the challenge, and thus the fun out of the game. I play the game to PLAY the game, because it's boring if you can have every item at your fingertips, kill everything with no challenge. That takes the fun out for me.

Frankly, I'd find it really, odd if someone was like "I see no reason to play this game at all, but, I'm going to GM it."

To me a GM having a legitimate character says "Yes, I love this game as much as you do." so it's natural for them to have legit accounts.
Title: Re: Admins, GMs, etc. playing on a RO server
Post by: Guest on Dec 20, 2007, 09:19 PM
imo its find as long as they dun:

tell other ppl that they have a legit
brag to other ppl that there GMs
and the usual dun use the GMs to lvl/get items/abuse their power and stuff like that~
Title: Re: Admins, GMs, etc. playing on a RO server
Post by: MrrgleCaek on Dec 20, 2007, 10:34 PM
yeah...I prefer to be a legitimate char myself xD, being an admin is so god damned boring, you just sit there, type in @reloadscript a few times, than deal with kids asking for things they can look up themselves about. More or less I find GMs that are at a young age or are immature tend to ruin the seperation factor between legit and their GM abilities.
....looks like there's not much of a "debate" about this after all...mabye it's more of the little kiddies with their E-drama that they complain about GMs having an actual RO character to play on.
@JJJ: why would it be wrong for a GM to talk about their legit character to others? Other people talk about their RO characters all the time, why not er, us? Are people really that judgmental going like "omgar, he prolly used his GM char tu make his itemz"?
Title: Re: Admins, GMs, etc. playing on a RO server
Post by: Guest on Dec 20, 2007, 11:03 PM
@JJJ: why would it be wrong for a GM to talk about their legit character to others? Other people talk about their RO characters all the time, why not er, us? Are people really that judgmental going like "omgar, he prolly used his GM char tu make his itemz"?

well its just from my experence that if someone knows a GM has a char that GM goes under major fire...
such as "hax me items" and "you lvl too fast you must be cheating" and things like that it happens alot to the GMs i no so i guess it kinda is nescasary...

but the ppl that do it basically dun care bout if they GM does it or not they just want to insult the GMs and such but thats just what i've noticed~
so its more of a thing to help the GM then the player


and i should mention not by not talking bout their char i ment that they shouldn't mention their char name XD
Title: Re: Admins, GMs, etc. playing on a RO server
Post by: Zone on Dec 20, 2007, 11:34 PM
I don't take the time to make legits, too busy working on the server.
Always something you can do.
Title: Re: Admins, GMs, etc. playing on a RO server
Post by: MrrgleCaek on Dec 21, 2007, 12:34 AM
Yeah...I'm too busy working my server as well than actually being able to play on it alot, I just hate all the repitition involved with scripting everything and planning things out...I just prefer to play than work :P, although creating things on a RO server would be considered play time as well, funny o_O.

@JJJ: Oh, I see what you mean now xD;
Title: Re: Admins, GMs, etc. playing on a RO server
Post by: Pow on Dec 21, 2007, 12:41 AM
@JJJ: why would it be wrong for a GM to talk about their legit character to others? Other people talk about their RO characters all the time, why not er, us? Are people really that judgmental going like "omgar, he prolly used his GM char tu make his itemz"?

well its just from my experence that if someone knows a GM has a char that GM goes under major fire...
such as "hax me items" and "you lvl too fast you must be cheating" and things like that it happens alot to the GMs i no so i guess it kinda is nescasary...

but the ppl that do it basically dun care bout if they GM does it or not they just want to insult the GMs and such but thats just what i've noticed~
so its more of a thing to help the GM then the player


and i should mention not by not talking bout their char i ment that they shouldn't mention their char name XD


Right, but if you have already established yourself inside the community - not only as  GM but also as a player, this kind of issue never arises.


-Pow
Title: Re: Admins, GMs, etc. playing on a RO server
Post by: Guest on Dec 21, 2007, 06:09 PM
Right, but if you have already established yourself inside the community - not only as  GM but also as a player, this kind of issue never arises.

ya i guess... but how offten does that even happen?~
Title: Re: Admins, GMs, etc. playing on a RO server
Post by: Mewi on Dec 23, 2007, 06:44 PM
While I do agree that GMs can have legits,  there will have to be extreme rules to it...  I do not believe that GMs on legit chars should not be able to gather all in one single guild... This just leads to corruption 9 times out of 10.  A GM that has more time for their legit/guild than they do their GM duties is a GM who shouldn't have power.  Responsibility comes to those who use it, not to those who put it on other people's shoulders...  In other words... if there is GMing to be done, then that should be priority 1 above all other RO related things.
Title: Re: Admins, GMs, etc. playing on a RO server
Post by: MrrgleCaek on Dec 23, 2007, 06:58 PM
Extreme rules? o_o, I dunno...to me, having a legit char means your own playing the server for the game, I find the huge problem of staff or a server owner being corrupt is that they are too young and too immature to take on the responsibilities of a real GM (had firsthand experience of this happening with some staff members I hired), they tend to always want to be controlling or powerful to ease their insecurity of being "young and inexperienced" or whatever the hell children have needs for nowadays...
But yeah Mewi, you're right, most of the time us GMs are too busy with tasks on the server to handle to be able to have so much time to play through the server well enough anyway :P
Title: Re: Admins, GMs, etc. playing on a RO server
Post by: pupu on Dec 23, 2007, 08:32 PM
I would rather join a server without any GMs with legit characters. Cheaters or not cheaters, they'd bring drama. I've been through a lot of crap with GMs using "legit" characters. A majority of them aren't actually legit. Even if they seem like they're not, they most likely are.

Anybody would do it.

If you're not actually that kind of person, and you dedicated person with your legit character and you have too much pride to cheat with your GM account, then you still shouldn't make a legit character. If you truly care about your own server, then you wouldn't make a legit character, that is, if you know for a fact that making legit characters when you're a GM, would actually cause drama.
Title: Re: Admins, GMs, etc. playing on a RO server
Post by: Mewi on Dec 27, 2007, 12:56 PM
I would rather join a server without any GMs with legit characters. Cheaters or not cheaters, they'd bring drama. I've been through a lot of crap with GMs using "legit" characters. A majority of them aren't actually legit. Even if they seem like they're not, they most likely are.

Anybody would do it.

If you're not actually that kind of person, and you dedicated person with your legit character and you have too much pride to cheat with your GM account, then you still shouldn't make a legit character. If you truly care about your own server, then you wouldn't make a legit character, that is, if you know for a fact that making legit characters when you're a GM, would actually cause drama.

You have not been a GM have you?  Sometimes you want to socialize and be part of the community without being flooded with 50 questions for just signing in...  If a GM is going to cheat on her/his legit then that GM is already corrupted and furthermore it has little to do with the legit char, but it has more to do with the actual person behind the sprite.  If that same GM was not allowed to have a legit then that GM would still be corrupted anyway...   Also, If you made it so GMs could not have a legit then they will be a great deal less active, especially when an emergency arises, they'll play OTHER RO servers... Which is a conflict of interest...

Just to point out... as GMs we are not robots, we are just people.  There may be corrupted GMs but there are good ones too.  Plenty have legits and have never cheated...  while there is plenty who do cheat, but that is all the responsibility of the server admin.   I am not saying corrupt GMs are good, infact I spent a great deal of time fighting corrupt GMs... But the fact is that when you take away GMs freedoms and treat them as robots... you take away a lot of themselves that made the server good.  But in my opinion the idea of preventing GMs from having a legit is un-equal/discriminatory and even corrupt.
Title: Re: Admins, GMs, etc. playing on a RO server
Post by: MrrgleCaek on Dec 27, 2007, 06:18 PM
I would rather join a server without any GMs with legit characters. Cheaters or not cheaters, they'd bring drama. I've been through a lot of crap with GMs using "legit" characters. A majority of them aren't actually legit. Even if they seem like they're not, they most likely are.

Anybody would do it.

If you're not actually that kind of person, and you dedicated person with your legit character and you have too much pride to cheat with your GM account, then you still shouldn't make a legit character. If you truly care about your own server, then you wouldn't make a legit character, that is, if you know for a fact that making legit characters when you're a GM, would actually cause drama.
Don't forget, GMs are humans too o.o, would you like to deal with idiot after idiot everyday and not get to play here and there on your free time? Drama does not exist for those with mature minds.
And yeah...Mewi and Serenity pretty much explain right there why GMs deserve to have legit characters to play on...
Title: Re: Admins, GMs, etc. playing on a RO server
Post by: Zone on Dec 29, 2007, 06:38 PM
Really, it is only drama when someone starts making false accusations without proof.
Title: Re: Admins, GMs, etc. playing on a RO server
Post by: Temperis on Mar 08, 2008, 10:31 PM
It varies from person to person. I keep legits all the time and never had to cheat once. I'm always out there with the rest of my friends breaking branches, hunting cards and whatnot. It's not for power being the reason I play RO. I just wanna have a good time - I mean I'm not trying to toot my own horn or anything but I don't suck at the game - I know I'm going to have a good character when I play one. I've been in charge of RO servers for so long that I have a feeling that I don't have to prove anything anymore. When I think about it, I could say it's because I could easily do what I wanted with my characters that I don't do anything with my characters.

But hey, like I said, it varies from person to person. Not everyone is so trustworthy. I've seen it happen with my fellow admins on other servers. I've removed many GMs that way, though it seems more like a phase than anything since I remember when I used to be like that as well.

Just my 2 cents.
Title: Re: Admins, GMs, etc. playing on a RO server
Post by: Tears of Blood on Apr 22, 2008, 09:01 PM
GMs have every right to enjoy their own server.

Sure, it'll cause drama. If you're so afraid of it, then don't create the legit account. Now, if you're a sensible GM, who doesn't cheat, then you should realize... YOU ARE THE GM!

*Gasp from the audience*

As long as you've got a truly legit character, taking s*** from idiotic players will just cause you more drama. If you catch a player spreading lies about you, just punish them. Don't give them a chance to cause a big ruckus about it. A RO server is not a democracy. You are in charge. Now, this doesn't mean you shouldn't listen to your players and be complacent, but just realize that you don't need to take crap from your players.
Title: Re: Admins, GMs, etc. playing on a RO server
Post by: Hanyuu on Apr 22, 2008, 09:20 PM
If it's my server, I have a right to play it too right? I made it the way I wanted it, opened it to others to let them try it and let it grow and merge with other player's suggestions. So isnt it only fair that I can enjoy the same things everyone else does if I ever get free time? I mean, seriously, how else are we gonna find exploits or bugs if we don't play too. Not everyone reports those things but everyone complains or uses it to their advantage.

Is it bad to be a GM, have a legit character and WoE on that legit? And everyone here has had those dumbasses who think they're the best in pvp/woe, but in reality they suck. If people find out that you're a GM and WoEing and actually being good at your class, those same people start corruption rumors or say that you haxed some items/levels for your LEGIT. There's a reason why it's called a legit.
Title: Re: Admins, GMs, etc. playing on a RO server
Post by: Scars on Jun 17, 2008, 03:17 AM
I belive players should trust the Admin(Main owner) at least for them to not be corrupted, if not or if the admin IS corrupted, people shouldn't play there.

I have my own legit character in my server, everyone know its me, I don't broadcast telling everyone, but I don't keep it a secret either. If asked I answered, and the players seem to have no problems with it. They just like to gang/kill me all the time =(

Though I believe Admin can never be a real player in their server, unless some one else is incharge of the server.
Title: Re: Admins, GMs, etc. playing on a RO server
Post by: Jason on Jun 17, 2008, 03:57 AM
*speaking of an owner who doesn't want to ruin his/her own server*
Even if the administrator(s) take their characters seriously, it means that they just *want to taste his/her own server's features* or blend in with his/her players as a normal character, there's totally nothing wrong about it because it's human rights to use your own property/belongings.

But when speaking of other GMs having a legitimate character, well that's a different case... It depends all in all.

For me, legits are legal characters w/c has its items made out of the game effort(the player side),
a GM with a legit character for me has its purposes : simply a test character for bugs, or a spy. Anything else like getting items w/c is not part of the spying/bug testing can be considered corruption/or please indicate the right term here.
Title: Re: Admins, GMs, etc. playing on a RO server
Post by: Hyde n Seek on Jul 02, 2008, 02:16 PM
I have a legit, I believe its important towards the servers growth.
1. Balance. No better way to see what is over and underpowered in your server other than experiencing it for yourself.
2. Staff hunting, its easy to lie on a application, I believe just watching over players on your legit will find better GMs, they can't fake there personality constantly.
Title: Re: Admins, GMs, etc. playing on a RO server
Post by: Auroraâ„¢ on Jul 12, 2008, 04:29 PM

One thing about certain servers is; when a game master doesn't have a legit character, some of the players automatically assume the the GMs have no right in any say of certain things. (i.e. PvP, WoE) I've had this happen to me a couple of times due to the fact I either didn't do them that often, and was on my legit more often than naught.

Also, this kind of goes along with GM privacy. As been stated here already, some players harass GMs when they know about a legit character, or even pick on GMs when they choose to play on a legit character. I personally think it's a lot better to keep any legit characters under wraps, or at least don't talk about it openly on the GM.

And, as most of us know, a bigger issue with GMs that play on legit characters as well, is that that temptation kicks in for a lot of people, and causes corruption. However, I know of a lot of staff members on a lot of servers that do resist that temptation, and are very well behaved when it comes to the powers entrusted to them on a GM.
Title: Re: Admins, GMs, etc. playing on a RO server
Post by: Reejuicy on Jul 30, 2008, 10:39 AM
80% on GMs not having a legit, 20% on the other option.

Based on the former servers that I've played on, it's a major.. thing that can lead into dramas and stuff. I'm contented right now on the current server that I'm playing on since the Admin doesn't allow his GMs to have legits. And oh, I'm a GM too in this server. ;)
Title: Re: Admins, GMs, etc. playing on a RO server
Post by: Mamimi on Aug 03, 2008, 04:32 AM
I never understood this whole 'debate'. If you can't trust your Admin to fire corrupt GMs, find another server. On the server I play, I make sure that every new person knows my GM name as well as how to find me when I'm on my legits. [All of my chars have lavender sprites. /ok] If you don't want to be 'bothered' when you're in-game, don't bother being a GM. I've seen this on a high-rate server I was on once, A GM was asked a question, logged off her GM account and onto her legit and stated 'I'm not on the clock right now, go ask someone else.' Personally, I wouldn't want a GM that didn't have a legit.
Title: Re: Admins, GMs, etc. playing on a RO server
Post by: Guest on Aug 12, 2008, 06:21 PM
actually thats a good point, if you trust someone enough to make them a GM shouldn't you trust them enough to have a legit?
Title: Re: Admins, GMs, etc. playing on a RO server
Post by: Poki on Aug 12, 2008, 06:48 PM
I trust everyone on the intarweb. That's how I lost $8000 and my server.

No, I'm rather disappointed when I see GMs with legit characters.  No matter how much I trust them, there will always, always, be a little glimpse of suspicion.
I expect the GMs to be dedicated, they should be allowed to have fun and all, but as a GM, they shouldn't be ruining the fun for others which they would if they appeared to have a legit character.

The admin would fail under the role of being dedicated if they had a legit character.  They would be considered as an admin who wants to play a server that they know they have the power to do anything in my eyes.  But yes, they can play their own server, but I don't expect them to be big winners.

Seriously, go find another server to play with a legit char, not the one where you're a GM. It's one or the other, not both.

If you trust someone enough to be a GM, you could trust that they will not have a legit character in the server.

That's the way I look at it.
Title: Re: Admins, GMs, etc. playing on a RO server
Post by: Hutchy on Sep 04, 2008, 11:07 AM


Bumping this, because this topic interests me. :x

If someone is suspicious of a GM aiding a legit, this is easily solved by reducing the GM level or taking away commands like @item. This is how it is on my server - only the admin and developers have the @item command, and the admin watches logs like a HAWK. The second you do something questionable, you are spoken to about it. You are removed immediately if you're abusing your power. If you are close with your GM team, and watch logs, I don't think it should be an issue. :x A GM could hand things out to his or her friends just as easily as they can aid their legit, why is their legit any more of a concern. @[email protected]

I find it pretty unfair to ask a GM not to have a legit on the server they help manage. I started playing at my server a few months back, and I was approached with an offer to be on staff - does that mean I should give up the legit I spent months working on? No. Not if hell froze over. I was doing the same things as a player that I do as a GM - helping people along, trying to troubleshoot errors. The only real difference is that my name and speech are yellow, and I can recall people and spawn things for events. If I was told to delete the characters I spent ages working on in order to obtain a staff position, I would have turned it down. And if all the people who GMed on my server had no legits, I can guarantee you the playerbase would hate them. XD Having legits is how you bond with the community, imo.

A co-staff member once said this to me (paraphrased):
"I stay on my legit most times because that's where I can be most effective. As a GM, I can't hand out items or leech people; that would be abuse. On my legit, I can hunt items, give out money where needed, etc. As a player I can do more for people in some respects than I can as a GM."
Title: Re: Admins, GMs, etc. playing on a RO server
Post by: Mewi on Sep 07, 2008, 02:47 PM
actually thats a good point, if you trust someone enough to make them a GM shouldn't you trust them enough to have a legit?

Trust is one thing,  trusting they wont abuse is another,  I say do not trust that they wont as there are to many people who will, and I have yet to GM on a server where there was never a corrupt GM, with exception of 1, but I was the ONLY active GM *sticks tongue out*.   GM/admin/dev in power.   You can respect them, give them liberty and see if they abuse it,  but the moment you place trust over duty and
Title: Re: Admins, GMs, etc. playing on a RO server
Post by: lrellok on Sep 08, 2008, 11:06 PM
The one thing i have seen done that reallyu seemed to work is a GM NPC guild.  Basically, the GM's made a guild of all their legits, then told everyone, this is the GM's guild.  They never went into WOE (except a few extreme situations where one guild was idiots).  Instead, they used theri guild to run PVP events, "can you beat the admins" kind of things.  Occasionally, they would lead dungeon raids into particularly hard dungeons, to encourage people to go there.  It actually worked out really, really well, because they could not be corrupt cause everyone knew it was them. 
Title: Re: Admins, GMs, etc. playing on a RO server
Post by: Hutchy on Sep 09, 2008, 10:08 AM
I still think corruption can be easily avoided by not giving your staff commands that can cause imbalance when abused. Abusing mute can be dealt with, abusing jail can be dealt with, etc. But take away @item and check your logs and you prettymuch guarantee that your GMs can't aid their legits. :x
Title: Re: Admins, GMs, etc. playing on a RO server
Post by: Mewi on Sep 10, 2008, 03:07 AM
I still think corruption can be easily avoided by not giving your staff commands that can cause imbalance when abused. Abusing mute can be dealt with, abusing jail can be dealt with, etc. But take away @item and check your logs and you prettymuch guarantee that your GMs can't aid their legits. :x

Or do the smart thing and just disable them from being able to drop/trade/store items, and do not allow #item o.o ;p
Title: Re: Admins, GMs, etc. playing on a RO server
Post by: Mamimi on Sep 10, 2008, 05:26 AM
disable them from being able to drop/trade/store items, and do not allow #item o.o ;p

Only thing with that is, on our server all of our GMs do events. We're required to make a post on the GM forum about it though, what items were used in the event etc.
Title: Re: Admins, GMs, etc. playing on a RO server
Post by: Guest on Sep 10, 2008, 06:43 PM
well they can still do lots of corrupt things even without item commands,
ie. tanking, MvP/WoE scouting, etc etc


so simply restricting the commands doesn't always work @[email protected]
Title: Re: Admins, GMs, etc. playing on a RO server
Post by: Mamimi on Sep 11, 2008, 03:50 AM
That's why you have to hire GM's that you trust. :D
Title: Re: Admins, GMs, etc. playing on a RO server
Post by: Mewi on Sep 11, 2008, 06:53 PM
well they can still do lots of corrupt things even without item commands,
ie. tanking, MvP/WoE scouting, etc etc


so simply restricting the commands doesn't always work @[email protected]

Limiting their stats to extremely low,  like 1 and cap their levels at 99 prevents tanking ;p
Title: Re: Admins, GMs, etc. playing on a RO server
Post by: Guest on Sep 11, 2008, 06:55 PM
x3 but then comes the "i can't tank bots" thing XD
but ya... its all just a matter of trust i guess @[email protected]
Title: Re: Admins, GMs, etc. playing on a RO server
Post by: Mewi on Sep 11, 2008, 06:57 PM
x3 but then comes the "i can't tank bots" thing XD
but ya... its all just a matter of trust i guess @[email protected]

Suspect everything worth suspecting and your server will be in harmony ;p
Title: Re: Admins, GMs, etc. playing on a RO server
Post by: Lai on Sep 15, 2008, 09:43 AM
Hi, well, in my case.
I had to quit playing my legit :P

It's hard when there is several ppl spreading rumors without any proof.
That is really a pain, they keep telling new players etc for a period.
But, guess what, now it's all fine.
Because I quit playing the game, so called "legit".

Which, kinda made alot players happier, because I dont know, I guess I was some kind of challange for them.

PS. I dont have any god items or mvp cards :P I got once a Tao Gunka card, but I sold it to NPC because...yea you know :P


But, now its alot less pain :P
It actually gives you alot more time, to do other things.
Plus, ppl respect you more, since you are the "Administrator" character all the time.


=)
Title: Re: Admins, GMs, etc. playing on a RO server
Post by: Poki on Sep 19, 2008, 12:29 AM
There's nothing unfair for a GM who has decided to become a GM to the server...
Plus, as an admin, I wouldn't advise hiring legit players in becoming a GM, doesn't seem to be professional in my opinion.

Anyways, please so keep in mind that it would be best for the server if the GM did not have a legit character. Why? Simply because it's the GM who decided to become a GM and it is most likely a better approach for the server to know that the server does not consist of any GMs with legit characters.

Of course... I guess it's up to how the administrator of the server wants to handle his or her server.
Title: Re: Admins, GMs, etc. playing on a RO server
Post by: Hutchy on Sep 30, 2008, 12:58 PM
It definitely depends on what kind of server you run. If you want your staff to form friendships with the players, asking them not to have a legit is ludicrous. Tons of players are afraid of GMs - saying the wrong thing, doing the wrong thing. They fear punishment, and GMs can dole out said punishment. Good luck getting an honest opinion from a player if you have "GM" in front of your name.

If the GMs are used solely for keeping the playerbase in line, then yeah, I see the no-legit rule. But I think it makes the server stronger as a whole to know who's watching over them.

There are pros and cons to both sides of the argument. There is no right or wrong answer, it just depends what kind of server you're talking about. :x
Title: Re: Admins, GMs, etc. playing on a RO server
Post by: Dove on Oct 12, 2008, 11:38 PM
Well... I can't say I have much experience GMing, really, but on the server I'm currently working on building we have a fairly strict policy with our legitimate characters.

I would love to be able to have an open legitimate on server without any conflict, but past experience as a regular player has shown me that frankly it just causes a lot of undue suspicion and drama. And having been on two servers now with a corrupt GM team, I'd just rather not give players any reason to believe they're suffering a repeat.

So the general policy we have is that if we choose to have a legitimate character, it is to be kept secret from the general public. It's not the best solution, but its working fairly decently for us at this time. If people discover this character and don't complain, we go about as normal, but with view equipment turned on at ALL times as a form of proof that we are, in fact, legitimate. If they discover a GM legit somehow and do complain or raise a fuss about any form of illegitimacy, we delete the legit.

It's just easier for keeping the peace, even if it's not always the most... exciting or fun choice for the GM team itself. :/

But that's just been my general experience with it all. We'll see how well it works out, ney?
Title: Re: Admins, GMs, etc. playing on a RO server
Post by: Descent on Oct 14, 2008, 07:17 AM
How many topics are we going to have on this subject...? And how many of us are going to repeat the SAME EXACT THING EACH TIME.
Title: Re: Admins, GMs, etc. playing on a RO server
Post by: Hutchy on Oct 14, 2008, 10:09 AM
How many topics are we going to have on this subject...? And how many of us are going to repeat the SAME EXACT THING EACH TIME.

More and more and more will be made unless we remove everyone from the internet.
And the same thing will be said each time until people get over themselves and realize someone else already said what they were about to say, and that they don't need to post in the topic.

XDDD
Title: Re: Admins, GMs, etc. playing on a RO server
Post by: Ayu on Oct 15, 2008, 04:19 PM
that, or mouRO comes in to say, "SCREW THE GMS" which in a way they do since they have none  :P
Title: Re: Admins, GMs, etc. playing on a RO server
Post by: Poki on Oct 17, 2008, 11:59 AM
So yeah, in the end, all the GMs should play in their server and @item Angra_Manyu and use it for WoE.
Title: Re: Admins, GMs, etc. playing on a RO server
Post by: Hutchy on Oct 17, 2008, 03:08 PM
So yeah, in the end, all the GMs should play in their server and @item Angra_Manyu and use it for WoE.

You are wonderful.
Title: Re: Admins, GMs, etc. playing on a RO server
Post by: Mewi on Oct 17, 2008, 08:34 PM
So yeah, in the end, all the GMs should play in their server and @item Angra_Manyu and use it for WoE.

I'd rather have a 4 socket whip with 2x Mazdah and 2x Angrya_Manyu in them.   @item2 <3  But seriously though >.<  If I want to play my legit that's my business x3  If I do my job right I shouldn't be feared by paranoid players to play a game.
Title: Re: Admins, GMs, etc. playing on a RO server
Post by: Descent on Oct 17, 2008, 08:42 PM
If a player has a problem with me playing on my server(or anybody for that matter), I challenge them to find any ounce of corruption that stems from me playing on something that I configured and constantly work on. I will gladly provide @command tables and character stats, to boot.

I shouldn't have to "find another server to play on". It's MY server, I PAY for it, therefore, I can do whatever the hell I want with it.
Title: Re: Admins, GMs, etc. playing on a RO server
Post by: XionSiphon on Nov 03, 2008, 11:12 PM
When you are actually an admin of a server, playing RO just isn't the same anymore, least in my experience, and just to save the hassle of unnecessary commotion, I just don't play the server I GM/Admin on (Not that I play RO anymore to begin with)
Title: Re: Admins, GMs, etc. playing on a RO server
Post by: DeAmascus on Nov 05, 2008, 08:18 AM
A lot of people don't like the idea of admins/GM's having legit characters exactly to the fact that they think we'll be "cheating" and giving ourselves items. Which is also insulting as well as rude to think that way. It is true that a few GM's on a FEW servers had done that, however if the GM's and admins are putting their own money into the server, they should be allowed to give themselves the items. [speaking from experience] =] 
Title: Re: Admins, GMs, etc. playing on a RO server
Post by: asdfqwerty123 on Nov 10, 2008, 01:13 PM
If a player has a problem with me playing on my server(or anybody for that matter), I challenge them to find any ounce of corruption that stems from me playing on something that I configured and constantly work on. I will gladly provide @command tables and character stats, to boot.

I shouldn't have to "find another server to play on". It's MY server, I PAY for it, therefore, I can do whatever the hell I want with it.

You're making a server for you, not what is best for your players.  You might as well local host.  I'm not saying do everything your players tell you to do, that creates a mess, but getting approval from most of your players would be nice.  I don't need approval, sometimes I do things anyway, but at least I try to explain to players and get understanding.  I'm saying consider their opinion because without them you really have no server worth playing.

Honestly though, I think that if you intend to be on staff (even if you're the admin) but then you play as a normal player (assuming you're playing, and not bug testing), you're not doing your job correctly.  Being too involved with players creates problems and drama and corruption and favoritism claims.  Overall it is bad.

It doesn't matter if the rumors or claims are true or not, if the players believe they are true and are provided with the fact that staff are actively involved in playing the server normally with their friends, you get the same effect as if it was true.  People distrust your staff, people distrust you, and it is because you would rather play than improve your server.  That alone should be enough reason not to try sitting on the fence of being staff or a normal player if you care about the future of your server.
Title: Re: Admins, GMs, etc. playing on a RO server
Post by: Descent on Nov 10, 2008, 07:47 PM
If a player has a problem with me playing on my server(or anybody for that matter), I challenge them to find any ounce of corruption that stems from me playing on something that I configured and constantly work on. I will gladly provide @command tables and character stats, to boot.

I shouldn't have to "find another server to play on". It's MY server, I PAY for it, therefore, I can do whatever the hell I want with it.

You're making a server for you, not what is best for your players.  You might as well local host.  I'm not saying do everything your players tell you to do, that creates a mess, but getting approval from most of your players would be nice.  I don't need approval, sometimes I do things anyway, but at least I try to explain to players and get understanding.  I'm saying consider their opinion because without them you really have no server worth playing.

Honestly though, I think that if you intend to be on staff (even if you're the admin) but then you play as a normal player (assuming you're playing, and not bug testing), you're not doing your job correctly.  Being too involved with players creates problems and drama and corruption and favoritism claims.  Overall it is bad.

It doesn't matter if the rumors or claims are true or not, if the players believe they are true and are provided with the fact that staff are actively involved in playing the server normally with their friends, you get the same effect as if it was true.  People distrust your staff, people distrust you, and it is because you would rather play than improve your server.  That alone should be enough reason not to try sitting on the fence of being staff or a normal player if you care about the future of your server.

That is, of course, your opinion, with the whole "You're not doing your job correctly". I and the rest of my staff do our job just fine, the players have always been happy, there has not been any drama regarding this.

We are both Admins with different styles. I could speak volumes about how you run ScytheRO(and the fact that I disagree with almost 90% of your opinions), and you could probably speak volumes about how I run SolsticeRO, but in the end, we are two completely different people with different opinions of RO. There is no "right" or "wrong" for any of this, which is something I have tried desperately to get people to understand here on RMS. I will however, stand by this fact:

There has not been ONE corruption report in the near year that I ran CorrosiveRO, and there will not be any in the future for SolsticeRO. You have not played my servers, I choose not to play yours, do not make assumptions about how I run mine and I won't do the same for you, Zairik.

Now, to take a line from PoisonWolf...

Cheers.
Posted on: 10-11-2008, 09:47:29
Oh, and since I'm moderated I forgot I can't edit posts until they show up. Anywho, sorry for the double post, please merge this with my previous one.

Zairik: What I meant to say with the "I'll do whatever the hell I want with it" was in regards to playing on it. I always consult my community when the potential for change can come around.
Title: Re: Admins, GMs, etc. playing on a RO server
Post by: asdfqwerty123 on Nov 18, 2008, 04:22 PM
My opinion is, of course, my own.  I don't ask people to agree with it, and I don't mind if they disagree with it.  But I don't avoid stating my opinion based on who might approve of it or not.  If I mentioned anyone specific or if anyone took offense or took it personally, I don't care honestly, get thicker skin.  If that's rude, I'm quite rude, I don't have any problem with myself for it either.  If you want to stop (long term) corruption, you can, but it requires sacrifices.  To me, the respect our staff gets from it and the quality of our staff makes all the difference if we have to set hard rules like not playing legit characters.
Title: Re: Admins, GMs, etc. playing on a RO server
Post by: night1218 on Dec 20, 2008, 04:08 PM
some GM's tend to create zeny or strong EQs for themselves..that makes me uncomfortable though
Title: Re: Admins, GMs, etc. playing on a RO server
Post by: Cockroach on Jan 04, 2009, 11:46 PM
disable them from being able to drop/trade/store items, and do not allow #item o.o ;p

Only thing with that is, on our server all of our GMs do events. We're required to make a post on the GM forum about it though, what items were used in the event etc.

On the server which I am Co-Admin of, GMs have no way to possible give items.
Instead we got a NPC which logs every activity and that is used to give prizes.
Title: Re: Admins, GMs, etc. playing on a RO server
Post by: Zone on Jan 05, 2009, 12:27 AM
Honestly though, I think that if you intend to be on staff (even if you're the admin) but then you play as a normal player (assuming you're playing, and not bug testing), you're not doing your job correctly.  Being too involved with players creates problems and drama and corruption and favoritism claims.  Overall it is bad.

It doesn't matter if the rumors or claims are true or not, if the players believe they are true and are provided with the fact that staff are actively involved in playing the server normally with their friends, you get the same effect as if it was true.  People distrust your staff, people distrust you, and it is because you would rather play than improve your server.  That alone should be enough reason not to try sitting on the fence of being staff or a normal player if you care about the future of your server.
I agree with Zairik 100% on this one.
That's something I noticed, a lot of GMs prefer to play on their GM account or mingle rather.
However, why would I need a gm to just sit around and talk with players all day?
Sure, holding events is great...in moderation. However, if you get all buddy buddy with certain users then rumors start forming.
I don't know about how much work everyone expects out of their staff, but when I am working on a server, that's it.
I don't play, I work. I'd expect my staff to be able to do their job while enjoying it, while taking time off for a dose of reality.
Title: Re: Admins, GMs, etc. playing on a RO server
Post by: Littlechan on Jan 05, 2009, 05:17 AM
from my experience:

you don't need to actually play on a server (as player)/ befriend with someone...to get someone say you corrupt...

seriously, I never play on my server (as a player), nor I have some close friend on my server (just some normal friend, they just talk to me if they need help, other than that, I rarely talk with them)

still, I got someone say I'm corrupted...that guy might just flaming on my forum though...because he can't show any proof :P
Title: Re: Admins, GMs, etc. playing on a RO server
Post by: VinLRO on Jan 15, 2009, 10:33 AM
If you play on your own server, it's ok for most players i think. Unfortunately, there are always some, who call you corrupt even if you aren't and spread the word. Imho it's a better idea to not play on your server.
Title: Re: Admins, GMs, etc. playing on a RO server
Post by: Fusioneko on Jan 16, 2009, 11:19 AM
I'm hosting a server now, running one now.

Now you see, I'm an administrator. I grant everyone even the name of that 'legit' character. That character does have a single

But my character is legit by all standards. I enjoy playing the game as well, even if my server is currently empty, some time off is well earned, as I spend already 80% of my time managing the server it's self, server-side, and client side while handling homework and school life.
Title: Re: Admins, GMs, etc. playing on a RO server
Post by: Xarale on Jan 17, 2009, 12:32 AM
As a GM, I always had something to do half of the time.  If I didn't, I would simply log out & do something else.  I refused to play a legit character once I joined a GM team, it just causes unwanted hassle.

You could be perfectly honest, and legit, yet you will always still get players who accuse you.  Sure, you can cast those accusations aside, but deep down, you know you'll never get the same respect as a normal character if you end up achieving something. (winning a castle, finding an mvp card.. etc)  Instead, you'll always have players doubting you.

Let's take an example,
Meet Mr GM.  Mr GM plays a legit character on his server, and happens to lead a WoE guild.  Now, let's say that Mr GM's WoE guild is constantly getting defeated in WoE & never wins, nothing strange so far right?  Now let's say that the next day, Mr GM becomes extremely lucky & finds a Ghostring card, along with an MvP card in a completely legit manner.  Would the players simply say; "Wow, Mr GM sure is lucky!", or would they start spreading rumours that Mr GM @item'd those cards himself?  What if Mr GM's guild suddenly started becoming victorious in WoE after this day?  Despite the fact that Mr GM is completely clean & legit, players will always have doubts, and rumours will spread, which ends up giving the server a bad image.  On top of this, this adds extra stress to Mr GM, who has to deal with all these rumours/accusations simply because he's a skilled & lucky player.

So personally, I think if a GM must play a legit, they should do so in a different server to avoid causing any possible drama on their own server.  Or if they truely insist on playing legit on their own server, they should avoid participating in WoE.  I'm not saying the above scenario will occur on every server that a GM plays legit on, but it does occur a lot.  The fact is, if the GM playing a legit becomes extremely lucky enough to find some rare cards/items, there will always be players who start to grow some doubts about the GM team & the server.
Title: Re: Admins, GMs, etc. playing on a RO server
Post by: Fusioneko on Jan 17, 2009, 03:47 AM
As a GM, I always had something to do half of the time.  If I didn't, I would simply log out & do something else.  I refused to play a legit character once I joined a GM team, it just causes unwanted hassle.

You could be perfectly honest, and legit, yet you will always still get players who accuse you.  Sure, you can cast those accusations aside, but deep down, you know you'll never get the same respect as a normal character if you end up achieving something. (winning a castle, finding an mvp card.. etc)  Instead, you'll always have players doubting you.

Let's take an example,
Meet Mr GM.  Mr GM plays a legit character on his server, and happens to lead a WoE guild.  Now, let's say that Mr GM's WoE guild is constantly getting defeated in WoE & never wins, nothing strange so far right?  Now let's say that the next day, Mr GM becomes extremely lucky & finds a Ghostring card, along with an MvP card in a completely legit manner.  Would the players simply say; "Wow, Mr GM sure is lucky!", or would they start spreading rumours that Mr GM @item'd those cards himself?  What if Mr GM's guild suddenly started becoming victorious in WoE after this day?  Despite the fact that Mr GM is completely clean & legit, players will always have doubts, and rumours will spread, which ends up giving the server a bad image.  On top of this, this adds extra stress to Mr GM, who has to deal with all these rumours/accusations simply because he's a skilled & lucky player.

So personally, I think if a GM must play a legit, they should do so in a different server to avoid causing any possible drama on their own server.  Or if they truely insist on playing legit on their own server, they should avoid participating in WoE.  I'm not saying the above scenario will occur on every server that a GM plays legit on, but it does occur a lot.  The fact is, if the GM playing a legit becomes extremely lucky enough to find some rare cards/items, there will always be players who start to grow some doubts about the GM team & the server.

:P I found a geographer card. at a 0.50% drop rate to. It's the SECOND card to drop in the entire server. I showcased the player who get the first card.

EDIT: They could just buy the cards from some players, then somebody would know that.. this card was purchased from someone. Making the flow actually run.
Title: Re: Admins, GMs, etc. playing on a RO server
Post by: Xarale on Jan 17, 2009, 05:25 AM
As a GM, I always had something to do half of the time.  If I didn't, I would simply log out & do something else.  I refused to play a legit character once I joined a GM team, it just causes unwanted hassle.

You could be perfectly honest, and legit, yet you will always still get players who accuse you.  Sure, you can cast those accusations aside, but deep down, you know you'll never get the same respect as a normal character if you end up achieving something. (winning a castle, finding an mvp card.. etc)  Instead, you'll always have players doubting you.

Let's take an example,
Meet Mr GM.  Mr GM plays a legit character on his server, and happens to lead a WoE guild.  Now, let's say that Mr GM's WoE guild is constantly getting defeated in WoE & never wins, nothing strange so far right?  Now let's say that the next day, Mr GM becomes extremely lucky & finds a Ghostring card, along with an MvP card in a completely legit manner.  Would the players simply say; "Wow, Mr GM sure is lucky!", or would they start spreading rumours that Mr GM @item'd those cards himself?  What if Mr GM's guild suddenly started becoming victorious in WoE after this day?  Despite the fact that Mr GM is completely clean & legit, players will always have doubts, and rumours will spread, which ends up giving the server a bad image.  On top of this, this adds extra stress to Mr GM, who has to deal with all these rumours/accusations simply because he's a skilled & lucky player.

So personally, I think if a GM must play a legit, they should do so in a different server to avoid causing any possible drama on their own server.  Or if they truely insist on playing legit on their own server, they should avoid participating in WoE.  I'm not saying the above scenario will occur on every server that a GM plays legit on, but it does occur a lot.  The fact is, if the GM playing a legit becomes extremely lucky enough to find some rare cards/items, there will always be players who start to grow some doubts about the GM team & the server.

:P I found a geographer card. at a 0.50% drop rate to. It's the SECOND card to drop in the entire server. I showcased the player who get the first card.

EDIT: They could just buy the cards from some players, then somebody would know that.. this card was purchased from someone. Making the flow actually run.

Aye you're right, if someone was to sell the legit GM a rare card, then yeah it probably wouldn't cause any doubts amongst players.

However as shown in my example, if a legit GM honestly found an extremely rare/MvP card one day, some players will always have doubts about it & possibly start to spread rumours.  It's sad that things are this way, but I'm afraid it happens on some servers.
Title: Re: Admins, GMs, etc. playing on a RO server
Post by: Fusioneko on Jan 17, 2009, 05:54 AM
As a GM, I always had something to do half of the time.  If I didn't, I would simply log out & do something else.  I refused to play a legit character once I joined a GM team, it just causes unwanted hassle.

You could be perfectly honest, and legit, yet you will always still get players who accuse you.  Sure, you can cast those accusations aside, but deep down, you know you'll never get the same respect as a normal character if you end up achieving something. (winning a castle, finding an mvp card.. etc)  Instead, you'll always have players doubting you.

Let's take an example,
Meet Mr GM.  Mr GM plays a legit character on his server, and happens to lead a WoE guild.  Now, let's say that Mr GM's WoE guild is constantly getting defeated in WoE & never wins, nothing strange so far right?  Now let's say that the next day, Mr GM becomes extremely lucky & finds a Ghostring card, along with an MvP card in a completely legit manner.  Would the players simply say; "Wow, Mr GM sure is lucky!", or would they start spreading rumours that Mr GM @item'd those cards himself?  What if Mr GM's guild suddenly started becoming victorious in WoE after this day?  Despite the fact that Mr GM is completely clean & legit, players will always have doubts, and rumours will spread, which ends up giving the server a bad image.  On top of this, this adds extra stress to Mr GM, who has to deal with all these rumours/accusations simply because he's a skilled & lucky player.

So personally, I think if a GM must play a legit, they should do so in a different server to avoid causing any possible drama on their own server.  Or if they truely insist on playing legit on their own server, they should avoid participating in WoE.  I'm not saying the above scenario will occur on every server that a GM plays legit on, but it does occur a lot.  The fact is, if the GM playing a legit becomes extremely lucky enough to find some rare cards/items, there will always be players who start to grow some doubts about the GM team & the server.

:P I found a geographer card. at a 0.50% drop rate to. It's the SECOND card to drop in the entire server. I showcased the player who get the first card.

EDIT: They could just buy the cards from some players, then somebody would know that.. this card was purchased from someone. Making the flow actually run.

Aye you're right, if someone was to sell the legit GM a rare card, then yeah it probably wouldn't cause any doubts amongst players.

However as shown in my example, if a legit GM honestly found an extremely rare/MvP card one day, some players will always have doubts about it & possibly start to spread rumours.  It's sad that things are this way, but I'm afraid it happens on some servers.

It can also dispel doubt as well, if the community is more tight knight, and smaller. It all depends on the community's overall trust.
Title: Re: Admins, GMs, etc. playing on a RO server
Post by: Ashiel on Feb 14, 2009, 03:31 AM
Back when I GM'd on SnowdropRO (GM Asael), I had a legit character. I had a legit character before I was offered position as GM, and I continued to have all my legit characters afterwards. In fact, the whole server knew of it, and it was posted on our forums. It wouldn't be uncommon for me to be walking through town and see someone with a technical problem (a common one was sakray wasn't up to date and they had got stuck on a map they didn't have), tell them to hold on while I logged into my GM account and fixed it for 'em.

I GMed on that server for many months before a variety of issues brought the server down (most notably the illness of the server owner, who meant a lot to everyone). However, "corruption" was not one of those issues. In fact, no one ever even mentioned corruption that I caught wind of. I also had the "good commands" as a GM, including the ability to modify characters (levels/skills/items), trade and drop anything I spawned, and summon stuff at will. Everyone knew this too (since I always ran lots of events).

Perhaps what I'm getting at with my little trip down memory lane, is that some players (and GMs) will understand honesty, trust, balance, and fair play. The more the community understands that, the less drama you'll have over things like "GM corruption", and by community, I mean the GMs and admins as well.

I'm currently working on my own private server right now, and I'm GM/Admin on it. It's hosted via my home PC and Hamachi right now (router issues, iz bad), but I hope to make it public after I get the kinks worked out of it and ready to go. When I do, as I do now, I will continue to play with my friends, help my community (even the tiny community I have right now), and have a good time.

I guess the black and white "GMs should" or "GM's shouldn't" just doesn't seem quite right to me. We did have a few "corrupt" GMs, but they were early on in the server's life and most of them were less corrupt and just inexperienced (giving out items that were too good during events and such). *shrugs*

Well, it's really late at the moment, so my thoughts are sorta floating about (so I'm guessing a lot of this sounds like rambling), so I'm just gonna head to bed.

Peace out, Game on, everyone. ^_^
Title: Re: Admins, GMs, etc. playing on a RO server
Post by: ADDFurret on Feb 17, 2009, 07:37 PM
I think it is perfectly fine.

Those who maintain and keep order of the server 24/7 will eventually get bored with the game itself. My definition of Okay is that the GMs Do not disclosed the information that they are GMs, for Judgment reasons and that the account is not allowed to come into contact with their GM account.

Game Masters are people too, they deserve to have some time off, or alone.
Title: Re: Admins, GMs, etc. playing on a RO server
Post by: Dauphine on Mar 30, 2009, 02:15 PM
All the admins on our server don't have legits. All the admins who did ended up giving their guildies items, did shady deals for wins, banned whole guilds for owning them...

With GMs I personally feel it's a different story. I think a lot of servers have in common that, after they exist for a long while (Like RRO, where I work now) you tend to hire active and experienced players as GM. That's just it, they were a player first, a GM after. Usually players who become a GM have been in this game long enough to not care about the items, the drama, etc. since they already are at the top of the game.
 It is hard to ask them to quit their legit. Same with me, I don't actually participate fully ingame as a player anymore, but I always love to do the new quests with friends or just sit and talk without getting spammed with the "GM HALP" or getting crowded by a whole bunch of nubs.

But then again.. a lot of GMs never could withstand the temptation of making their GM a level 100 buffslave, or leveling their characters with commands, or iteming some... stuff. Well, the rule now is that we don't give those abilities to new GMs until after a couple of months, and then even not.

So yeah, my personal stance is, Admins, no. GMs, really can't say no to them. They worked hard for their legits in all cases, and taking away their original relaxation in this server.. I can't do that :(
Title: Re: Admins, GMs, etc. playing on a RO server
Post by: Edan the Man on Apr 18, 2009, 08:11 PM
Do I think GMs should be allowed legit accounts? I think its best if they have legit accounts, if I was in charge of any server I would say its even required.

The way I see it, the best way for a GM to know and fully understand a community, is to be a part of that community, and have first hand knowledge of whats going on in the game from a player's perspective.

A person who doesn't actually play the server he/she is GMing will never have the knowledge and understanding of one who's involved on a real character.
Title: Re: Admins, GMs, etc. playing on a RO server
Post by: LiteX on Apr 19, 2009, 01:42 AM
Not wanting to beat a dead horse but my point of view of a GM/Admin playing on a server is based on some blacks and whites and a few grey in between,

Should:
*Se with eyes of a player on how his server is
*Someone who played before has a love for his server
*Already interacts with the community so others can see him as equal, not someone higher
*Prevents boredom

Shouldn't:
*Give his "legit" gears or levels
*Give his "legit" exclusive stuff
*Make items that powerup his class only
*Create imbalance to make his class more powerful in anyway
*Say he is a GM to get a higher position

Overall, some servers do not allow GMs to have legits because players will end up thinking they are corrupt, but GM having legits actually brings server benefits, and it is impossible to prevent not gaining rare cards as a GM without unlegitfying your character, mostly, you will get rare stuff without even trying (This is the usual case for me, except LoVing Amatsu Hydras), so while a GM is killing garm w. his legit to get an ice falchion, card drops and corruption rumors may spread, hell, most of the rare cards i've gotten (Raydrik and Khalitzburg at 0.4% and Clock at 0.02%) was when I was collecting eluminiums, rare stuff pops up at random, so for most people they will think either luck or corruption, but the harder to get the items, the more people will think they are corrupt
Title: Re: Admins, GMs, etc. playing on a RO server
Post by: Allie on Apr 19, 2009, 11:30 PM
Do I think GMs should be allowed legit accounts? I think its best if they have legit accounts, if I was in charge of any server I would say its even required.

The way I see it, the best way for a GM to know and fully understand a community, is to be a part of that community, and have first hand knowledge of whats going on in the game from a player's perspective.

A person who doesn't actually play the server he/she is GMing will never have the knowledge and understanding of one who's involved on a real character.

I agree.

I think it is necessary for GMs to get to know the community and mingle with them. That way, they can see the player's interests and it will actually help the server.

However, I don't think any GM should be close personally to another player. It causes drama, scandals and suspicions.
Title: Re: Admins, GMs, etc. playing on a RO server
Post by: InsurGensuji on Apr 22, 2009, 06:40 PM
Debating on the server style. There has been some servers I was a GM and had legits. Though we had it known th the player base GMs could not @item/#item or trade/open shops. Though I am now trying to run my own server, I took a step back from playing and just wanted a server friends and others could come to without wondering if GMs had "legits". If I ever do decide to make a legit Screenshotting everything important aswell as willing to show logs to prove legitness.
Title: Re: Admins, GMs, etc. playing on a RO server
Post by: Hutchy on Apr 22, 2009, 07:04 PM
Debating on the server style. There has been some servers I was a GM and had legits. Though we had it known th the player base GMs could not @item/#item or trade/open shops. Though I am now trying to run my own server, I took a step back from playing and just wanted a server friends and others could come to without wondering if GMs had "legits". If I ever do decide to make a legit Screenshotting everything important aswell as willing to show logs to prove legitness.

They will only accuse you of fabricating evidence. It's a futile effort, sad to say, but people will believe what they want to believe, even in the face of whatever proves them wrong.

Ontopic: I'm indifferent.
Title: Re: Admins, GMs, etc. playing on a RO server
Post by: Descent on Apr 22, 2009, 07:25 PM
RO players are stupid.

If you're a staffer playing a completely legit character, you're corrupt.
If you're a strong player, you must be hacked, and the staff is still corrupt.
If the Admin bans somebody for being a moron and generally pissing everybody off, that Admin is corrupt.

Blame never falls on the idiots who start trouble in the first place.
Title: Re: Admins, GMs, etc. playing on a RO server
Post by: LiteX on Apr 23, 2009, 03:26 AM
RO players are stupid.

If you're a staffer playing a completely legit character, you're corrupt.
If you're a strong player, you must be hacked, and the staff is still corrupt.
If the Admin bans somebody for being a moron and generally pissing everybody off, that Admin is corrupt.

Blame never falls on the idiots who start trouble in the first place.

Some of truth goes there, not much but still.
The most common definition of "illegit corruption" is giving benefits to your legit by using @commands that normal players don't have, but for some, it simply means "playing RO if you have a GM account".

The strong player one I agree, if you checked the guide section you might noticed that I do alot of effect stacking covering only 1 point (Pretty much its "Water defense and screw rest" or "Fire defense and screw rest!"), then, when I get Marse, Saphien's Unfrozen Armor, and a lot of mdef crap and someone uses a water magic doing low as heck damage, they wii either:
1) Be smart and use JT
2) Call me a noob for using "cheap tricks" (To make it more wtf, the dude that did it switched to his gfist champ after I killed him)
3) Accuse me of haxing illegit stats

And I totally agree if an admin bans someone for being a moronic idiot, and even though, the mass corruption of some admins also help fuel this (Players will end up stay alert for any sign of corruption), I wonder if it's the human average intelligence, or RO Players that are becoming ignorants
Title: Re: Admins, GMs, etc. playing on a RO server
Post by: Descent on Apr 23, 2009, 07:25 AM
And I totally agree if an admin bans someone for being a moronic idiot, and even though, the mass corruption of some admins also help fuel this (Players will end up stay alert for any sign of corruption), I wonder if it's the human average intelligence, or RO Players that are becoming ignorants

It's the general ignorance of the kids who still play this game. A lot of them who play are most likely still in diapers.

Two years ago, I could join a new HR, go into PVP about 50-60 Lvs below "Max"(255 being the max, usually), and clear a PVP room. It usually generated a good amount of respect mixed with fear mixed with hate.

NOW, if I were to do the same thing, since Admins just seem to get younger and younger, I'd be banned for "haxing".
Title: Re: Admins, GMs, etc. playing on a RO server
Post by: Najara on May 04, 2009, 12:54 PM
On Topic:

I tried to play my own server as a normal character, but I didn't like it.  :P
Thing is... (even if you don't, atleast, you shoudn't) you know that you're able to get everything on your GM-Account, so why wasting time for a legit character while you can use that time to improve your server?  :)

RO should be challenging, entertaining, competive.
And as Administrator/Game Master it's hard (maybe even impossible) to get that feeling on your own server.
Title: Re: Admins, GMs, etc. playing on a RO server
Post by: Max on Jun 28, 2009, 02:09 AM
Never had any problems playing on the server and neither have the other GMs. Of course, we're all professional enough to not mix our GM and normal accounts.

What's the point in setting up the perfect server (according to our ideals), and not playing on it? It's like working hard to build (and pay for) the most amazing house, and then not live in it.

In the same way it would be a waste to soil it with corruption.
Title: Re: Admins, GMs, etc. playing on a RO server
Post by: SilverStream~ on Jun 28, 2009, 06:50 AM
It's like making an amazing house and letting other people use it lol.

I think I posted here already btw~ so I'll say that the opinion changes.  Sometimes you don't want to have a legit, sometimes you want to have a legit.
If you have a legit no one knows who is, and thinks is a normal person, then it's kind of more okay.  If everyone knows who your legit is then in woe they go "GM HAX I REPORT" and other things <.<.
Title: Re: Admins, GMs, etc. playing on a RO server
Post by: Poki on Jun 28, 2009, 11:33 AM
If you have a legit no one knows who is, and thinks is a normal person, then it's kind of more okay.  If everyone knows who your legit is then in woe they go "GM HAX I REPORT" and other things <.<.

It's like having an open relationship or being a playa' !  /ho
Title: Re: Admins, GMs, etc. playing on a RO server
Post by: Yuufa xD! on Jul 08, 2009, 06:34 AM
In my opinion, it depends on the level of commands that they have. I they get @blevel or @jlevel, @item, or anything that would bonus a player in any way, I don't let them to play on 'legit' accounts. Usually when you hit this level of GM you've got sick of RO and just want to sit there and chat and help out the community anyways.
But if its just an event GM just give them headgear or whatever your server uses once a week or something and make them keep a log of what hat was given out when and to who.
This way there isn't any corruption and if a headgear of item is out of place then there's consequences to be payed. :]
Title: Re: Admins, GMs, etc. playing on a RO server
Post by: Hutchy on Jul 08, 2009, 09:20 AM
That can be solved by not allowing your GMs to have those commands in the first place.
Title: Re: Admins, GMs, etc. playing on a RO server
Post by: Annihilate on Jul 12, 2009, 09:48 PM
semi-off-topic:

 yes. a level 40 GM account will prevent GMs from dropping items, modifying their stats, using storage, checking/buying vended items etc. Althought there is a small loophole where a GM can dual log, use @hide with maximum agi and dex and hit lock mvps while his legit char is also hitting it. I dont know if the mvp will teleport because of this, if it doesnt, then too bad.


On Topic:

 Legit accounts are okay, but bear in mind that you will have extra burden as far as preserving you credibility especially if the server populace knows that it is you who owns those characters.
Title: Re: Admins, GMs, etc. playing on a RO server
Post by: NemuKru on Jul 21, 2009, 07:20 PM
On Post Topic- I think its fine to have a legit char, I mean, we created it, why cant we play it? Just a thought. I use a legit char to lure out spammers/scammers/botters out of their holes, and before they know it, ~Poof~! Banned. But I'm forced to re-make a accucount per ban so they don't tell the community I'm the Owner/Admin of the server.
Title: Re: Admins, GMs, etc. playing on a RO server
Post by: devilsnevercry on Jul 29, 2009, 10:56 AM
If players know a GM or Admin have a "legit" they always shout out Corruption when you pwn them in the face. Hell I had a "GM" account that couldnt trade items, couldnt @item the only time I got on it was to handle bugs or to reloadscripts/restart the server and somehow I was giving out items to my friends, Admin even checked logs and nothing in there about me giving anyone items, yet the player base still said i was corrupt. So if a Staff member is to have legits dont make it public who you are unless your ready to be bashed. Though if they do know who you are dont be good at your class/RO heaven forbid a GM actually know classes/builds and all.
Title: Re: Admins, GMs, etc. playing on a RO server
Post by: Zelos on Jul 29, 2009, 11:00 AM
In higher ranks of GM Levels (Chief GM, Administrators), the only reason I see okay to have a legit is to check if players can use a command, warp to a map,etc.
Title: Re: Admins, GMs, etc. playing on a RO server
Post by: mlukers on Aug 04, 2009, 10:26 AM
I would be fine with the GMs having legit chars so long as there are logs made and carefully reviewed by the upper levels of the team, admin, head GM, etc.
Title: Re: Admins, GMs, etc. playing on a RO server
Post by: tiawyn on Aug 04, 2009, 01:09 PM
There are a few issues with this...

1) If a GM or Admin has a legit account, you have to make sure that the community is aware of it and they are alright with it. This is probably directed towards little servers [less than 50 people]. I myself had a legit account first before I had a GM. It wouldn't make sense if they just blocked my legit account when I was GM. Plus, all I ever did on my legit account was sit around on it, so no one really accused me of cheating. But since I was on a small server, the GMs that were there were trusted by the community and nearly 80% of the GMs that stayed were already integrated into the community before they had GMs. There were a few times when one of the staff was there since the beginning and we all love him. But he had a really good LK that was nearly impossible to kill. Since everyone knew that he was a GM, they accused him for cheating and playing on his GM. I assured them that he wasn't on his account [since you can check by using either @whogm and @who and check the level] and all the veterans knew that it was his regular account.

2) If the GM is brand new to the server, a lot of Admins have it so that GM:60 and under have an anti-cheat system, like they can't drop items, can't store anything, dont have any #commands, etc.

3) Sometimes it is necessary to have a legit account, like for testing things and such. Sometimes GMs pull from the players and have them assist them, but the GMs borrow people that they know and trust not to cheat with. Like there was one time when I wanted to test something and it involved having all +10 gears and such, and I trusted them not to go off and mess with it or whatever, even if they run off with it I could always #delitem and not go off using them again. Another reason is if you are testing the server and you want to test it out yourself before you go out and do the real thing. It doesn't really count as a "legit" account because the server is gonna wipe anyway before the opening, but you get the idea.

4) It's fun. I'm sure that all admins just want to program and mess with the server, but wouldn't you want to test your creation?

5) Another thing that I have done in the past is to list off all my legit accounts just in case they think that I am lying when that is my GM account. What I have done is have all my legit characters sound alike [have -cera at the end] and have just one character on my GM account [Tiawyn] and have maybe a few testers [Cera Test, etc]