Champion MVP weap

[Alex.]

Im in a 99/70 server with a lvl 90 Champ

What's the best substitute for MVPing instead of 3x AK Lunakaligo?

I'm thinkin 3x Minorous maybe?

ideas?

[Triper]

Yeah 3 size or 2 race/1 size are cheap substitutes but a simple +10 Mace[4] with 2 ak/2 race[3ak/1 race is the same dmg output since both are 2.1 mods but is a bit more expensive] beats luna in a high atk setup too.

[Alex.]

Ah ic, thanks for the info dude

[MysticNight]

You could also pick an MVP to farm and make a mace just for it. I'm sure you can get really cheap racial cards that nobody wants.
For example, get water water brute for garm (I think). Brute will be really easy to get anyway, and is a better card than minorous if you want to go specific.

[Annihilate]

I also play in a 99/70 server and from experience, I get the best damage output with +9 Lich's bone wand (+300 sp) with 2 AK's.

[Triper]

You probably have a super high sp setup to that be true because on a normal good build even a +5 luna with 2 ak+element > lich +9 with 2 ak[the better atk mod also helps this to be true].
I need to have a gypsy to pump sp to near 3k to be able to do the same dmg as the no-gypsy but good gears setup but I may be missing something.

What I know from my experience is that High atk+ decent sp > high sp+decent atk since the formula of asura favours atk but sp increase gears are a lot easier to get so people just get a good weapon and a ton of sp increase gears.

Probably the following not many will understand since I'm a bit sleepy and tired to do something easier/better to understand and I'm being lazy to do something mathematically correct so being lazy and just playing with numbers to get results faster and I may have done some mistakes here and there

(click to show/hide)

ATK * (8 + (Remaining SP-1)/10)
Lv 5 means +1000 extra final dmg on this formula.
luna has an atk of 110, lich 60.
let's play with an easy 795 sp champ with 100 str with 109 total dex[221 atk from stats]
[(Total Attack) x ( 8 + SP/10 ) + 1000] x Carded Mods = lv5 asura formula[I think]

luna with 2 ak+1 element = 1.8 mod
[(221+110)*(8+(795-1)/10)+1000]*1.8 = [331*(8+79.4)+1000]*1.8 = [331*87.4+1000]*1.8 = 53872.92

lich +9 with 2 ak = 1.5 mod and a +300 sp increase
[(221+60)*(8+(1095-1)/10)+1000]*1.5 = [281*(8+109.4)+1000]*1.5 = [281*117.4+1000]*1.5 = 50984.1

Some random input check to give a better clearance of what I'm talking about:
Formula at 5 - ATK * (8 + Remaining SP/10) + 1000

2*(8+(2-1)/10)+1000 means 1 sp to cast, 1 sp used on an asura with 2 atk to check numbers. ends with 1016 dmg

Checking the same equal number for sp values -> 1*(8+(X-1)/10)+1000 = 1016 <=> x-1 = 80 <=> x=81

that 1 is the asura cost so 1 atk = 80 sp

lich gives 300, 300/80 = 3.75 atk increase
luna has 50 more atk then lich
3.75 < 50
luna wins
50-3.75 = 46.25 atk difference
46.25*80 = 3700 sp difference
Since +5 is the safe refine lv for luna and lich is +9 and if this is correct, it should be just a difference of 28 atk so it's less 2240 sp in that 3700[no clue about how this things work to be honest lol, just playing with numbers and nothing more]
3700-2240 = 1460

tl;dr version of the spoiler:
80 sp = 1 atk increase
300/80 = 3.75 atk
50 > 3.75
28 extra atk from lich being over
50-28-3.75 = luna +5 has 18.25 extra atk then a +9 lich
translating that to sp numbers means that with a lich you need 18.25*80 = 1460 more sp

This means that you do the same dmg with the lich using a gypsy while the other doesn't need one[pure based on this] or the competition is really bad vs you and you don't need to get something better.
This isn't 100% true if you are using a gospel slave and just waiting for one of the good buffs instead of both +atk and +sp buffs.

I may be wrong too, feel free to correct if you find some things wrong.

[Variant]

(click to show/hide)

ATK * (8 + (Remaining SP-1)/10)

Lv 5 means +1000 extra final dmg on this formula.
luna has an atk of 110, lich 60.
let's play with an easy 795 sp champ with 100 str with 109 total dex[221 atk from stats]
[(Total Attack) x ( 8 + SP/10 ) + 1000] x Carded Mods = lv5 asura formula[I think]

luna with 2 ak+1 element = 1.8 mod
[(221+110)*(8+(795-1)/10)+1000]*1.8 = [331*(8+79.4)+1000]*1.8 = [331*87.4+1000]*1.8 = 53872.92

lich +9 with 2 ak = 1.5 mod and a +300 sp increase
[(221+60)*(8+(1095-1)/10)+1000]*1.5 = [281*(8+109.4)+1000]*1.5 = [281*117.4+1000]*1.5 = 50984.1

Some random input check to give a better clearance of what I'm talking about:
Formula at 5 - ATK * (8 + Remaining SP/10) + 1000

2*(8+(2-1)/10)+1000 means 1 sp to cast, 1 sp used on an asura with 2 atk to check numbers. ends with 1016 dmg

Checking the same equal number for sp values -> 1*(8+(X-1)/10)+1000 = 1016 <=> x-1 = 80 <=> x=81

that 1 is the asura cost so 1 atk = 80 sp

lich gives 300, 300/80 = 3.75 atk increase
luna has 50 more atk then lich
3.75 < 50
luna wins
50-3.75 = 46.25 atk difference
46.25*80 = 3700 sp difference
Since +5 is the safe refine lv for luna and lich is +9 and if this is correct, it should be just a difference of 28 atk so it's less 2240 sp in that 3700[no clue about how this things work to be honest lol, just playing with numbers and nothing more]
3700-2240 = 1460

The damage multiplier for extremity fist is:

skillratio + 100*(8 + CurrentSP/10) (According to rathena's/eathena's battle.c, it's been the same formula for years, so I doubt your server is different, so its a safe bet to use it)

Skillratio in this case = 0, so yeah, Triper's formula is correct.
[(Total Attack) x ( 8 + SP/10 ) + 1000] x Carded Mods + 1000 = Level 5 asura so...

Also remember that this is all integer math though, so decimals are truncated on division and multiplication anyway, and division/multiplication have equal precedence so whichever one comes first is what happens first so...

221 + 110 for luna = 331 ATK -> 331 * (8 + (795-1)/10) + 1000 = 331(87) + 1000 = 29797 x 1.8 = 53634 damage with luna

vs

221 + 60 for lich = 281 ATK -> 281 * (8 + (1095-1)/10) + 1000 = 281 * (117) + 1000 = 33877 x 1.5 = 50815 damage with lich

So! That 300 SP would actually have provided more damage output than the luna, however, that last slot definitely plays a huge difference (30% more damage is a pretty big deal).

As for the random math Triper did at the bottom, it pretty much is playing with numbers lol, comparing SP to ATK is apples to oranges. So it really comes down to what you've got. The formula is pretty consistent, and you could probably figure out an ideal combo through it.

[Annihilate]

You probably have a super high sp setup to that be true because on a normal good build even a +5 luna with 2 ak+element > lich +9 with 2 ak[the better atk mod also helps this to be true].

That's actually true. I use a gospe pally slave and a max-int service gypsy slave AND a lex-ing priest slave, which (under ideal conditions) lets me hit around 1.2mil asura with just sohee+ morphset + porcellio + 2xAK LBW + Lex Aeterna.  I use it a lot when solo-ing an abracabra-ed Ifrit/Valk Randgris in a very small map. [Note:I play in no-custom 99/70 no 3rd-job server atm]

Basically, I think service+ 2xSP gospel effect also affects the SP bonus from +9 LBW. If you plan to use asura with a Slave dancer, then I suggest a +9LBW instead of a lunakaleet/lunakalingo (regardless of the upgrade). Otherwise, Luna's the way to go.

[Triper]

I made some tests with that and yeah, you're right. Under that conditions the lich +9 beats a luna +5 it but the difference is sooooo small that is almost nothing. If we compare a +9 luna vs the +9 lich, luna wins but still is a small difference.

I guess it's a good and cheap alternative to an expensive build if lichs are cheap on some servers and lunas[even a +5] are expensive.

[mohdamrilazuan]

  but remember luna is a mace and lich is a rod.. weapon type damage make difference when you fighting with monster with difference size..

[Triper]

Only vs small since rod is 100% vs all and mace 100% vs all except small, 75% vs that which in standard mvps there is 1 - Mistress.

[Relics]

but remember luna is a mace and lich is a rod.. weapon type damage make difference when you fighting with monster with difference size..

Not sure how this is for renewal but the difference in damage is negligible

[fluidin]

veteran hammer should be pretty good